Bee breeding/improvement groups

[prakel]

Jon, thanks for the overview; I pretty much based the second part of my question on the fact that your own group is quite young. This raised the question in my mind as to whether some of the less experienced members may possibly find themselves just going with the flow and maybe even culling what are actually good queens simply because they're lacking the confidence to think that their own bees may actually be as good as those raised by the group in some respects, hence my question about whether they're encouraged to assess their own colonies.

Maybe developing a group methodolodgy for assessment from an early point which could possibly be backed up by members visiting each others apiaries and submitting assessments for later discussion/comparrison might encourage a deeper understanding of what it is that they're involved in. They would feel some of the pressure of selection which would in itself draw them right into the centre of the group. More work for someone(!!) to organize and more effort on the part of the members admittedly...

I agree with what you wrote about colony assessment in it's broad outline although I do have some reservations about the suggested ability of an inexperienced keeper to be able to work oblivious to serious aggression -no matter what they're wearing. As we all know, when you've got one of 'those' colonies you know about it! But I'm knit picking here for no good reason.

I like the idea of a practical group with similar goals that can learn from each other and may even throw the idea about a bit to see what kind of interest there is.

[Jon]

maybe even culling what are actually good queens

A lot of the folk can't find their queens yet!
The main problem with the general bee stock in my area is swarminess.
For a long time there has been a culture of giving swarms to beginners and this has been a mechanism for perpetuating swarmy genetics over the years.
You would not believe how many swarms some beekeepers produce and they run out of equipment by mid may and start disbursing cast swarms left right and centre to anyone who wants one.
These bees are seriously naff. If you rehouse a prime swarm it will be making queen cells again within a month.
A lot of them are ok temper wise but they are really hard to manage re. swarm control.

With a new group you have to avoid blinding people with science or too much technical stuff.
The key goal is to whip up enthusiasm for bee breeding and rearing your own queens.
In the long run you want people to start doing this at home or maybe even starting up another group.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi DR

Maybe about 50% and rising have actual bees. I say and rising as some of the bee-less ones are getting bees from swarms etc. Estimated hive numbers? Maybe 3-400. Our secretary has 50+ and a maybe a dozen others including me have more than 10. So 3-400 might be a reasonable estimate. As far as I know we don't have any commercial beeks operating in Moray.

I think I'm reasonably accurate on SBA membership and reported the same to Alasdair Joyce during an SBA skype video conference a couple of weeks ago.

That is surprising that half the associations members don't have bees
That must be a bit of a worry for you that they don't get impatient and order some.
but you are in good shape for a bee breeding project and have a ready outlet for the bees

I thought about it and realised most of the people I know with bees are not SBA either (but I don't know many beekeepers)

[prakel]

You would not believe how many swarms some beekeepers produce and they run out of equipment by mid may and start disbursing cast swarms left right and centre to anyone who wants one.
These bees are seriously naff. If you rehouse a prime swarm it will be making queen cells again within a month.
A lot of them are ok temper wise but they are really hard to manage re. swarm control.

I had three Carnica type swarms turn up at a single apiary during the first half of May -actually had another three turn up elsewhere in the general area- which I'm convinced came from the same hive; you could see the decreasing size with each arrival, the third barely covered two BS frames (of which I don't have many lurking around but they are good for bait hives). I won't be at all surprised to see them make an attempt to 'go' again later this year.

...blinding people with science or too much technical stuff.

Not a chance in Hell of that happening in these parts!

The key goal is to whip up enthusiasm for bee breeding and rearing your own queens.
In the long run you want people to start doing this at home or maybe even starting up another group.

Totally agree with this, the more people giving thought to what they're doing the better especially if they can then get even more people thinking the same way -but without resorting to brow-beating. Back last summer I stopped to talk to a couple of guys collecting a swarm from outside of a local library, nice enough chaps, one of them made quite a big, eloquent, thing about stopping the import of bees from NZ then, later in the conversation he announced that he was planning to try a couple of the Danish Buckfast queens! He just couldn't see the flawed logic of his own thinking but would be the first in line to condemn someone for bringing in a NZ Carnica.

[Jon]

I try and avoid the spats with people who keep bees other than amm as a holier than thou attitude wins few friends.
If you get enough enthusiastic people in a group the thing gains critical mass.

[drumgerry]

That is surprising that half the associations members don't have bees
That must be a bit of a worry for you that they don't get impatient and order some.

We've grown in size very rapidly DR. From a low of maybe 20 or less members 8-10 years ago. But we feel like we're quite a progressive association and try to do lots for the members and the community. As an example last year there were approx 40 people in Scotland who passed the SBA Basic Beemaster and I think 10 of those were from Moray. So things are going well. We have lots of beginners but we're giving them as much training and support as they want.

Surprisingly few have gone out and bought imported nucs as far as I know. And those who have are a long way from the upland area where we'd like to put our mating apiary.

[The Drone Ranger]

I try and avoid the spats with people who keep bees other than amm as a holier than thou attitude wins few friends.
If you get enough enthusiastic people in a group the thing gains critical mass.

Like the ex smokers who decide to convert the rest of their friends

Or the good old Jehovah witnesses who everyone knows are lovely people but we still lock our doors when we see them coming.

The five a day crowd who although they now know it doesn't protect against anything carry on telling we should eat them anyway.

Cyclists who kick cars because they are ruining the peaceful planet.

and people who make lists they are the worst

[Jon]

Never kicked a car in my life although I admit to the odd expletive when some boy racer overtakes me at 60mph about 4 inches away from my right elbow.

Bird watchers I know describe people as 'low-listers' meaning that if you spend all day day somewhere and record only a robin a wren and a chaffinch as opposed to 97 species and a couple of vagrants blown in then you are clearly one of life's failures.

[The Drone Ranger]

We've grown in size very rapidly DR. From a low of maybe 20 or less members 8-10 years ago. But we feel like we're quite a progressive association and try to do lots for the members and the community. As an example last year there were approx 40 people in Scotland who passed the SBA Basic Beemaster and I think 10 of those were from Moray. So things are going well. We have lots of beginners but we're giving them as much training and support as they want.

Surprisingly few have gone out and bought imported nucs as far as I know. And those who have are a long way from the upland area where we'd like to put our mating apiary.

Sounds great best keep it under your hat or we'll all be moving there.
I'm in an agricultural area rape,potatoes,grain that's the rotation
Lots of seasonal bee movements (not me I'm too lazy)
Your secretary must have a big extractor for 50 hives
Suggest he gets cracking on the AMM queen breeding they're £75 a pop (forget the honey how many jars is that)
The only beekeeping test I have passed is being stung 30 times in the legs and still able to run (don't drop the hive)

[The Drone Ranger]

Never kicked a car in my life although I admit to the odd expletive when some boy racer overtakes me at 60mph about 4 inches away from my right elbow.

Bird watchers I know describe people as 'low-listers' meaning that if you spend all day day somewhere and record only a robin a wren and a chaffinch as opposed to 97 species and a couple of vagrants blown in then you are clearly one of life's failures.

Steady on I might be one of those vagrants
Sun is shining now so it's down to the offie for some Buckfast