Apis mellifera mellifera(AMM) honey bees

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Rosie
Drones average 1,156,850 spermatozoa of which only some 3-4% appears to be migrate to the spermatheca. This reduces the viable sperm to some 35 – 46000 sperm /drone packet. Queen mating with perhaps 17 drone accumulates circa 6 000 000 - 8 000 000 which tallies quite well with Koeniger et al
As one would expect, the number of sperm in the spermatheca decreases significantly over time as the queen utilizes her stored semen to fertilize her eggs. Al-Lawati et al. (2009) found that, on average, one-year-old queens contained only 38%, and two-year-old queens only 21% of the sperm found in freshly mated queens.
The total number of spermatozoa extracted from the spermatheca of a freshly mated queen varies between one to eight million (Koeniger and Koeniger 2000, Cobey 2007).

But you knew this already!
Eric

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Alexj
Many thanks for the references – the Collins one I found most interesting. The in vitro findings appear conclusive – but so did the “Glabal Warming” work of Beddington till he shot himself in the foot and moved over to the more accurate “Climate Change” logo! He is now the saviour of the world in food. The Prof in South Vietnam who cloned imaginary human embryos also springs to mind, as does Piltdown Man. I have canvassed a number of experienced beekeepers in my ken and quizzed them on the “Core Population” vs the “Random Harvest” postulations - all insist that they have noted core population characteristics and “peripheral” differences in small numbers of colony members.
My question is - despite the seemingly conclusive finding of Collin’s in vitro research, did his team ever do DNA testing ‘in the field’ on honey bee colonies by selecting significant numbers of adult bees from the colonies when all the flying bees were ‘home’ to achieve a really representative sample? Further did his team do DNA sampling on significant numbers of larvae developing on the same comb – to prove that his in vitro results were repeating in the larvae. I am conceding nothing unless I can be shown hard copy proof positive of field test results. Learning lessons is not something I am afraid of! By the way the Behavioural Ecology and Sociobiolgy Vol 42 No 4 (1988) reference gave me sperm storage in snails – viz: Behavioural Ecology and Sociobiolgy Vol 42 No 4 (1988) “Sperm allocation in the simultaneously hermaphroditic land snail Arianta arbustorum”.

Eric

[AlexJ]

Eric,
Apologies for incorrect reference I was ten years out, it should be:

Sperm usage in honeybees, Micheal Halberl and Diethart Tautz, Behavioural Ecology and Sociobiolgy Vol 42 No 4 (1998).

The 12 month trial, if my memory serves me correctly used an observation hive and a matrix of the queen's laying routine to identify eggs/larvae for analysis, this may answer some of your questions regarding brood selection.

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Alex
Still no joy! Do the unthinkable and paste the paper as a post. I'd like very much to see the spermatheca storage issue settled by a field trial paper
I think Rosie's new thread could run and run. Looks interesting even now!

Eric

[gavin]

Folks (including Eric of course)

The cutting and pasting people were taking offense to was the habit of reproducing propaganda in quantity. I don't think that anyone would object to snippets of proper science being presented here if it is simply to provide the detail for some discussion on a serious beekeeping topic. For example:

Behavioral Ecology and Sociobiology
Volume 42, Number 4, 247-255, DOI: 10.1007/s002650050436

Article
Sperm usage in honey bees

Michael Haberl and Diethard Tautz

Abstract
Sperm usage was investigated in a naturally mated honey bee queen. We collected worker progeny arising from eggs that were laid sequentially during three sampling periods. Paternity was determined by analysis of three polymorphic microsatellite loci, leading to the conclusion that the queen had mated with seven males. Direct analysis of the sperm from the spermatheca revealed no evidence that sperm from additional males was present inside the spermatheca. Frequencies of different subfamilies differed significantly and ranged from 3.8% to 27.3%. In the short term, the frequencies of subfamilies among the eggs laid did not change over time. The frequency of eggs of a particular subfamily was statistically independent of the previous egg's subfamily. Thus, there is no evidence for non-random fine-scale sperm usage, and we estimate the effect of sperm clumping to be less than 6%. We conclude that the sperm is mixed completely inside the queen's spermatheca. Our results suggest that taking brood samples from comb cells next to each other is a statistically correct way of independent sampling of subfamilies at a given time in honey bee colonies. Furthermore, any bias in subfamily frequencies in offspring queens due to sperm usage can be excluded. However, the analyses of progeny samples taken 12 months apart do not allow us to exclude moderate fluctuations of subfamily frequencies in the long-term.

[Rosie]

That seems pretty compelling to me. It's as most of us thought - the sperm is well mixed in the spermatheca and at any given time there are plenty of sub-families in a hive simultaneously. The thinking is that these sub-families have differing skills and the hive runs better if these various skills are present at all times.

Rosie

[Jon]

Hi Rosie
Drones average 1,156,850 spermatozoa of which only some 3-4% appears to be migrate to the spermatheca. This reduces the viable sperm to some 35 – 46000 sperm /drone packet. Queen mating with perhaps 17 drone accumulates circa 6 000 000 - 8 000 000 which tallies quite well with Koeniger et al
As one would expect, the number of sperm in the spermatheca decreases significantly over time as the queen utilizes her stored semen to fertilize her eggs. Al-Lawati et al. (2009) found that, on average, one-year-old queens contained only 38%, and two-year-old queens only 21% of the sperm found in freshly mated queens.
The total number of spermatozoa extracted from the spermatheca of a freshly mated queen varies between one to eight million (Koeniger and Koeniger 2000, Cobey 2007).

But you knew this already!
Eric

None of this has anything at all to do with whether sperm is completely mixed in the spermatheca. It basically says that new queens usually have more stored sperm than older queens. Surely rather obvious.

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Gavin
Thanks for that! Pleased not to be “excluded”
Eric

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Rosie
Rosie wrote:
That seems pretty compelling to me. It's as most of us thought - the sperm is well mixed in the spermatheca and at any given time there are plenty of sub-families in a hive simultaneously. The thinking is that these sub-families have differing skills and the hive runs better if these various skills are present at all times.
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I guess interpretation of data depends on a particular “where one is coming from”!
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Michael Haberl and Diethard Tautz wrote:
Frequencies of different subfamilies differed significantly and ranged from 3.8% to 27.3%.

However, the analyses of progeny samples taken 12 months apart do not allow us to exclude moderate fluctuations of subfamily frequencies in the long-term.

We estimate the effect of sperm clumping to be less than 6%.
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These statement imply that specific dominant characteristics can appear in specific periods of time, if not continuously, which would confirm the validity of many observations of beekeepers over the years.
How long is a piece of string?
Best regards
Eric

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Jon
Jon wrote:
None of this has anything at all to do with whether sperm is completely mixed in the spermatheca.
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It basically says that new queens usually have more stored sperm than older queens. Surely rather obvious.
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It turns out to be quite useful information since in highlighting this fact you alluded to a phenomenon which I instinctively felt and put to work 40 years before the BIG BOYS in America realised its significance.

Eric