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Thread: Will your bees attempt to swarm in May

  1. #121
    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    ... To control swarming I now just separate the queen from the queen cells, leave only one queen cell in a queenless box, and keep it that way by removing extra cells made later. Doesn't matter whether the flying bees are with the old queen or with the queen cells.
    Do you put the queen in a nuc made up as usual with three frames of brood, Gavin? Or do you leave her with fewer, or no, brood frames and a lot of house bees? Or something else? And, I suppose, move her to another apiary?
    Kitta

  2. #122

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    Useful stuff there Gavin, thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    Perhaps you missed a queen cell? In a colony with a piping virgin and a sealed cell remaining, losing a cast is quite likely.
    I can't rule it out I suppose but after losing the swarm I only had two brood combs to check and did so twice and I am as sure as I can be there there was no QC there in any state! I have since given them a QC to look after.

  3. #123
    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    To control swarming I now just separate the queen from the queen cells, leave only one queen cell in a queenless box, and keep it that way by removing extra cells made later. Doesn't matter whether the flying bees are with the old queen or with the queen cells.
    Interesting how different people adopt different methods. I used to do it just like this but increasingly do a vertical split as it allows me to re-unite more easily in the future. I often also knock off all the cells at first, then check again and leave one unsealed charged one. That way I'm pretty sure they started it from a young larva.

    Nice swarm - as defined by the fact they're calm and already piling in the pollen - arrived in a bait hive today

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    To control swarming I now just separate the queen from the queen cells, leave only one queen cell in a queenless box, and keep it that way by removing extra cells made later. Doesn't matter whether the flying bees are with the old queen or with the queen cells.
    I've been doing the opposite on occasions (AKA Snelgrove method II). Vertical split, division board, putting queen with queen cells and brood in top box. So far they have torn all queen cells down. Number of times I've done this is low but damn impressive to date. This may change
    Depending on queen either give eggs to lower box to raise new queen/leave frame with single queen cell....or leave without larvae for a week or so and unite back to original queen.
    Or remove top box with queen to another apiary etc...the possibilities are multiple depending on where you want to be.

  5. #125
    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thymallus View Post
    ...or leave without larvae for a week or so and unite back to original queen.
    How effective is this? I've never really tried it but am fast running out of boxes

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thymallus View Post
    I've been doing the opposite on occasions (AKA Snelgrove method II). Vertical split, division board, putting queen with queen cells and brood in top box. So far they have torn all queen cells down. Number of times I've done this is low but damn impressive to date. This may change
    My mentor guided me through one of these at the weekend and same experience, all the QCs torn down. It is quite remarkable. Wally Shaw's guide says to put the original queen back with the old queenless flying bees after 9-10 days but I'm not sure I see the point?

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatshark View Post
    How effective is this? I've never really tried it but am fast running out of boxes
    It seems to work most of the time I've used it. In fact I can't recall it not working with the bees I keep...I think Snelgrove reckoned 9-10 days...gives time for the oldest flying bees to die off, but I usually do it after 7 days or 8 depends on timing of apiary visit plus weather. It's not something I do too frequently as I usually take the opportunity to generate new queens by adding fresh larvae/eggs...so only amalgamate back if it's a queen I want to keep.
    My division board has a square mesh so odours are still compatible, but I also give them the air freshener treatment as insurance when mixing back.
    Should add these are mainly Buckfast F1's which are not very swarmy bees in general.... I never found an effective method of swarm control for the local bees in my area, these were (and still are) avid annual and bi-annual swarmers.
    Last edited by Thymallus; 30-05-2018 at 12:29 PM.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thymallus View Post
    .
    Should add these are mainly Buckfast F1's which are not very swarmy bees in general.....
    I have a hive with a 2915 Blue Buckfast queen.Never swarmed...

  9. #129
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    Unless circumstances mess up my plans, I tend to not breed from a queen that's swarmed - or certainly the early swarmers in the year and over a few years I have had less of a problem that I once did. If a colony is about to swarm a Demaree usually works for a short while however a large colony will then again attempt to swarm a 2 or 3 weeks later. Occasionally cutting out queencells will work but usually because of some other management - for example giving extra space if the bees were heavily congested; however cutting out queencells is something you need to go back to the colony for a few days later and check again - it can buy you some time but is not a sure-fire solution. If a colony is going to supercede, it's usually because the queen is old or failing and you can usually be alerted by slow laying; drone brood in worker cells or such-like, supercedure is unlikely to happen in a large and prosperous colony in the height of summer; I agree with Gavin concerning what the books tell us about supercedure cells; colonies can swarm on them. Clipping the queen is a good remedy.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by madasafish View Post
    I have a hive with a 2915 Blue Buckfast queen.Never swarmed...
    Must have been a good year, I currently have a couple of 2015 blue dotted Buckfast queens both still going strong. Most of my swarming occurs when I accidentally (operator error) get F2' queens and they revert to the local annual swarming phenotype. They usually get replaced with F1's or better...what I do for swarming colonies varies per hive; usually all dependent on times, whether I have any newly mated queens available, the circumstances on the day and what spare kit I have in the back of truck/at the apiary at the time. I nearly always have a few Snelgrove boards around....very versatile piece of kit.

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