EFSA report on risks of spread of small hive beetle

[gavin]

In 2015 (nearly wrote 'this year') I had two colonies headed by Irish Amm queens raised in Belfast but with a mother from an independent Irish Amm bee farmer, Pat Deasy. These two were the best performing in the apiary which otherwise has the mixed stock available in the Errol area pushed towards Amm by my futile efforts to select for that. One, hybridised with Buckfast, was murderous. The other was fine but defensive when the weather was poor - perhaps influenced by its hybridised sister alongside. Yes, you mentioned that Amm has a name for being particulary defensive when conditions were poor, but overall the pure one was a great colony, slow to make swarming preparations (and easily discouraged when it did so eventually) and particularly productive for the site and year. The queens are now entering their third year.

I also have two stocks with Belfast Irish queens from a mother sourced from the heart of the Galtee group, both 2015 queens. Both seem like good stocks so far but have not been tested in a full season.

DR also had queens from Jon and really liked what he saw. Can I drag you along to see mine in the height of the season?

These are not destined to be used as breeding stock, just to use to compare with the best of the Scottish-sourced Amm. The Errol apiary was never going to be a place to breed stock.

It doesn't surprise me that Irish carnie or Buckfast supporters denigrate Irish dark natives (or vice versa), that is just the way beekeepers are. Nor that (some) people who are against imports get excited when they hear of a Swiss inspector who was convinced he'd found SHB. People like to see evidence that supports the positions they already hold.

Fatshark, spot on. On average, I think that the LAs in Scotland do this a bit better. Locally we have certainly been able to satisfy every one of our beginners with bees either from the association apiary or from a couple of members who raise extra stocks.

[gavin]

PS Yes, I know I am risking bringing in unknown Belfast pathogens. Sorry . Just queens though.

PPS You are allowed to be a bit grouchy after the month you've had .

[Calluna4u]

In 2015 (nearly wrote 'this year')
DR also had queens from Jon and really liked what he saw. Can I drag you along to see mine in the height of the season?

Of course! Hope you would be happy if Jolanta came along too. Maybe armed with a wet towel and a sharp knife?

These are not destined to be used as breeding stock, just to use to compare with the best of the Scottish-sourced Amm.

Why not? Sometimes the diversity make for better long term results than going too narrow in your selections. As you know we do not incorporate more than 50 from any one mother into our unit to avoid inbreeding. The diversity is SO valuable long term, and with Ireland having a good sized population of the bees you prefer then why not incorporate it. there is a vast Amm resource in France you might want to look at too....and Cornwall which as you saw tested best at Sussex.

The Errol apiary was never going to be a place to breed stock.

For your narrow breeding programme fine, but for production colonies with better reliability of mating you might need to. Not seen a really savage colony over that way since the local guy had iberica there a few seasons back....maybe 10 or 15 years ago

It doesn't surprise me that Irish carnie or Buckfast supporters denigrate Irish dark natives (or vice versa), that is just the way beekeepers are.

They don't denigrate them, just argue the case why they find other types more desireable to keep. The other side do the same. The are generally quite structured and mannerly in their arguments.

Nor that (some) people who are against imports get excited when they hear of a Swiss inspector who was convinced he'd found SHB. People like to see evidence that supports the positions they already hold.

You were there when Mike Brown said that, 'to be fair, the Swiss inspectors did not think they had found SHB'. They went out to get confirmation of what they had found or rather that they had not found SHB. The real story behind that seems to have been more benign than initially reported. The fact it was definitely SHB, and that it had been confirmed, neither of which came from any official body, seems to have been very rapidly generated by internet chatter.

Fatshark, spot on. On average, I think that the LAs in Scotland do this a bit better. Locally we have certainly been able to satisfy every one of our beginners with bees either from the association apiary or from a couple of members who raise extra stocks.

....

[Calluna4u]

PS Yes, I know I am risking bringing in unknown Belfast pathogens. Sorry . Just queens though.

PPS You are allowed to be a bit grouchy after the month you've had .

Lol @ unknown pathogens from Belfast. Not a thing I would have any fear of...bring in hundreds of queens if you want!


Mind you.......if at some time we are at the mating location....and drones are around in numbers sand you can hear FEK.....GIRLS....DRINK...AR**E....then I might suspect you of flooding the place with Emerald Isle drones...

[The Drone Ranger]

DR also had queens from Jon and really liked what he saw. Can I drag you along to see mine in the height of the season?

.

Two

Wendy gave me one F.O.C. to see what I thought
That one the bees are all black and VG

Jon gave me the second one FOC
Because the bees are not all black
we will see how they go this year

There are always ways to side track any discussion so let me just say

Small Hive Beetle is not in the UK
Small hive Beetle is in Italy
If we import bees from Italy there is a serious risk it will come here
C4u is one of the main importers of Italian package bees
Those are facts

There are plenty bees in the UK without imports
No amount of mooching round other peoples apiaries changes that
Those two are opinions

There is a difference

[gavin]

The only issue I might have with that is that 'Plenty bees in the UK without imports' is an opinion verging on a fact.

[mbc]

Two

Wendy gave me one F.O.C. to see what I thought
That one the bees are all black and VG

Jon gave me the second one FOC
Because the bees are not all black
we will see how they go this year

There are always ways to side track any discussion so let me just say

Small Hive Beetle is not in the UK
Small hive Beetle is in Italy
If we import bees from Italy there is a serious risk it will come here
C4u is one of the main importers of Italian package bees
Those are facts

There are plenty bees in the UK without imports
No amount of mooching round other peoples apiaries changes that
Those two are opinions

There is a difference

Clearly expressed, my boys would say "boom!".

[gavin]

Hope you would be happy if Jolanta came along too. Maybe armed with a wet towel and a sharp knife?

Of course!

G.

[Calluna4u]

There are always ways to side track any discussion so let me just say


If we import bees from Italy there is a serious risk it will come here


There are plenty bees in the UK without imports

You will not find me trying to sidetrack this matter, but you have to allow the conversation to stray a little at times and me to be allowed to respond.

Unless you see the precautions being taken, the severity of the checks (including an inspector even going round every package at the cold store to check the cage floors for beetles etc) and the fact no bees from southern Italy come here (as far as I know) and most definitely not from the affected provinces or the neighbouring ones, you cannot say if the risk is nil, minor, significant or serious. I will do better than invite you to see what the checks are like......why not do a co driver run? then you will see it all and you will be very surprised at how thorough a job is done, all on bees from over 1000 km from SHB.

I see how it is done and how lax it is here, and for sure I would prefer to buy the very nice Buckfast that come from there than UK stock that I had not seen the provenance of for myself.

Plenty of bees in the UK without imports is also a point of debate. You see it that way, but there are a sufficient number who don't to stop it being a concensus.

Anyway...its an ill wind..... this thread brought forth an order for packages tonight. 110 to an assortment of people...to be fair only one of them mentioned the thread but its a group order from new buyers. Scottish too.

I guess the last thing about mooching around others apiaries is a decline then? Shame. I do not shirk away from dealing with issues like this and getting you in front of me and SHOWING you what is done here might improve understanding.

[Calluna4u]

Just a short update on the 'no shortage of bees' statement.

I go into my office for the first time since Hogmanay to find three more *inquiries* for packages....as heavy losses from worn out bees, poor matings, and virus issues are expected to give them significant problems in spring. In this case they are from Yorkshire, Shropshire, and Essex. Total 250, limited mostly by what the think they can afford. None yet firm orders.

Another from someone with 20% losses already and half their remaining colonies 'too small' though they are not at the stage of ordering yet and wondering how late they can leave it. A prolonged spell of hard weather might see a lot of the little ones off. As for our own unit, I don't see the losses being catastrophic now, as most of the bees I see still have a very decent cluster size. There are exceptions, as always we have a few ropier groups.

Queenless booster packages are also being asked about, quite a common practice in parts of Europe, but rare here.