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Thread: Help Oxalic Acid.

  1. #141

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    I hope it stays that way! Artificial swarm in March? :-)

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  2. #142
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    Haha not many things are certain in beekeeping but march queen mating in Scotland is a definite no

  3. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by snimmo243 View Post
    I hope it stays that way! Artificial swarm in March? :-)

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    With our weather the same could be said of May June and July

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  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete L View Post
    Solubility of wax and residues in honey
    Oxalic acid is not water soluble. This is a most important fact when considering a use free of residues.
    NOT water soluble ? Bit of a typo there, methinks ...

    I've been using OA sublimation for years - it's dirt cheap, much quicker to apply than trickling, and providing you stand upwind, completely safe. I've never used a mask or any other form of protection - there's no need, providing you understand and respect the chemistry.

    The BIG difference between trickling and sublimation - which is a difference which is rarely focussed upon - is that trickling is usually done with OA dissolved in a weak sugar solution. So, as the bees lick off the sugar solution, they will be ingesting OA at the same time.
    With sublimation, the fine dust of micro-crystals is not attractive to the bees in any way, so it will not be ingested in significant amounts. But - due to it's hygroscopic nature, the fine crystalline dust forms clumps around the feet of any varroa, thus causing the mite's demise, but because of a difference in anatomical structure, the feet of bees are immune from such clumping.

    To my mind, and for numerous reasons, the use of sublimation in preference to trickling is a no-brainer.

  5. #145

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    Curious to know why you think sublimation is quicker than trickling. Takes me about a minute or less to trickle oxalic on a box of bees. And another good reason to trickle rather than sublimate is surely cost. Trickling only needs a syringe which costs pennies and there's no need for the required sublimation apparatus which is a significant cost surely.

  6. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by drumgerry View Post
    Curious to know why you think sublimation is quicker than trickling. Takes me about a minute or less to trickle oxalic on a box of bees.
    Gerry, takes me 25 seconds, or less with 1g of oxalic, for sublimation.

  7. #147
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    Wow that's impressive. That means you could do an apiary of 10 colonies in a fraction over 4 minutes. It takes me that long to get my boots and veil on.

  8. #148

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    Fair enough Pete. The point I was trying to make though is that trickling is not a long winded process! It's (almost!) idiot proof and couldn't really be cheaper. Buying one of those fancy Varrox things and using a car battery to operate it can't really be said to be cheap. And even if you're using a diy vapouriser I'd be amazed if the cost was less than a plastic syringe - mine is currently still in use 4 years down the line as I clean and dry it thoroughly after every use. If people want to sublimate/vapourise again fair enough but to say it's a better method than trickling is stretching it a bit in my opinion.

  9. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie View Post
    Wow that's impressive. That means you could do an apiary of 10 colonies in a fraction over 4 minutes. It takes me that long to get my boots and veil on.
    It is fast Steve, good when doing a lot of colonies, but the equipment is expensive compared to the passive evaporators.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumgerry View Post
    Curious to know why you think sublimation is quicker than trickling. Takes me about a minute or less to trickle oxalic on a box of bees. And another good reason to trickle rather than sublimate is surely cost. Trickling only needs a syringe which costs pennies and there's no need for the required sublimation apparatus which is a significant cost surely.
    Overall, cost is a lot cheaper than using a solution - which isn't cheap to purchase and has a sell-by date.

    On the other hand - 1 kg of OA costs about a tenner, IIRC - that's for a thousand treatments, and without any expiry date.

    No need to buy Varrox kit - it's easy enough to make your own gear. I'm currently making another one for a friend - I use a 50 watt soldering iron element attached to a large brass washer - the apparatus itself is contained inside a wooden box which has a computer fan attached to it's removable top and an exit hole for the vapour to exit at it's bottom. The box is then simply placed over any hole in your crown board. They cost about a fiver to make. Using a low thermal mass washer means that the heating-up time is minimal, and the cooling-down time is equally minimal, thus speeding up the operation. Not that speed is a major issue for me - thoroughness is far more important.

    I have seen DIY efforts which use a fairly substantial milled aluminium block - but heating such a mass requires both a large wattage heater, and is very s l o w to operate.

    But the main reason I use sublimation is: less disturbance to the bees; 98% (or thereabouts) mite knockdown with just one application; no dribbling of water all over a colony of bees (which they do not like); and there's no inadvertent feeding of OA to the bees in the process, as would be the case with trickling.

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