Pollen Feeding

[rourkie]

hi Popz In my experiance a shortage of pollen will not lead to the death of a colony, but a shortage of stores will(honey ,syrup).Bees will not take syrup if it is to cold better to feed candy.You wish to stimulate spring build up to enable you to increase colonies, Feed syrup as a stimulant when spring has sprung and they will build up quickly. You can still feed your protien it will not do any harm.feeding syrup as soon as is it safe stimulates the bees they think they have a flow on and go for it. You are using a brood and a half if possible switch to double brood its so much easir to make increase if your bees are all on deep frames, and generaly to manage colonies, Regards rourkie

[POPZ]

hi Popz In my experiance a shortage of pollen will not lead to the death of a colony, but a shortage of stores will(honey ,syrup).Bees will not take syrup if it is to cold better to feed candy.You wish to stimulate spring build up to enable you to increase colonies, Feed syrup as a stimulant when spring has sprung and they will build up quickly. You can still feed your protien it will not do any harm.feeding syrup as soon as is it safe stimulates the bees they think they have a flow on and go for it. You are using a brood and a half if possible switch to double brood its so much easir to make increase if your bees are all on deep frames, and generaly to manage colonies, Regards rourkie

Thanks for all that Rourkie. So pollen substitute does not stimulate them, and so safe to feed now. Is that correct?
Why is a double brood easier to make increase and to manage colonies generally? Hope you don't mind all these questions, but it is all very interesting and important to get things as right as possible before the season starts.
POPZ

[rourkie]

hi popz pollen will not stimulate your bees as feeding syrup in the spring will if you want to feed pollen substitute now thats fine but make sure they have enough stores. At the moment you have one colony as soon as you have two or more you will want to be able to swap frames of bees ,brood, or stores between colonies. you do this for a lot of different feasons, frames of stores brood and foundation are used to make up nucs if you mix deep frames and shallow in the same box it causes problems . if you use double brood all you brood rearing is done on a standard size frame, build up on 2bb and you can split the top box from the bottom you have 2 colonies one queen right one queen less the queenless hive can use its brood to make queen cells. .There are many more reasons why you will want a standard size brood frame,hope this helps.Regards Rourkie

[gavin]

Hi Popz

Without bees occupying a second brood box you'll not have the same ability to split the colony to make increase, but if you get them working two brood boxes fully then you might be able to split one of those boxes into three nuclei to help solve that bee shortage on Mull. If you build them up then you might end up with two boxes full of bees and congested - that is when they are likely to make queen cells. Less prolific bees or a poorer environment for them might mean that they struggle to fill the two boxes and so don't go reproductive as that congestion is a trigger for queen raising.

Why not try your protein patties and - when it warms up - light syrup too? If your mentor has a look you'll be able to judge together whether or not your strategy worked. Normally there would be no need for you to push the bees like this, but you are trying to do something a little unusual. People who rely on an oilseed rape harvest sometimes do this too. It does mean that you will need to keep feeding once you start (until the flows appear in your area) and that you will miss the chance to see how the bees tailor their behaviour to their surroundings.

Remember the drones. If you end up splitting your only colony then the virgin(s) will need a good supply of drones from several other colonies to get properly fertilised. If you are more than a mile or so away from other apiaries (with the right kind of drone!) you might think of putting your splits into nuc boxes and taking them closer to a supply of drones. And, of course, if you are successful in pushing your colony ahead of all the others in the area then they may not have mature drones when your queens are flying. Some will though - colonies in warm sunny spots in flowery Tobermory, for example, are likely to be far ahead of those on a wind-swept hillside.

hope that helps

Gavin

[Trog]

Excellent advice Gavin!

[POPZ]

hi popz pollen will not stimulate your bees as feeding syrup in the spring will if you want to feed pollen substitute now thats fine but make sure they have enough stores. At the moment you have one colony as soon as you have two or more you will want to be able to swap frames of bees ,brood, or stores between colonies. you do this for a lot of different feasons, frames of stores brood and foundation are used to make up nucs if you mix deep frames and shallow in the same box it causes problems . if you use double brood all you brood rearing is done on a standard size frame, build up on 2bb and you can split the top box from the bottom you have 2 colonies one queen right one queen less the queenless hive can use its brood to make queen cells. .There are many more reasons why you will want a standard size brood frame,hope this helps.Regards Rourkie

rourkie, that all makes a great deal of sense, thank you. Will probably come back to you as the season progresses

Hi Popz
Remember the drones. If you end up splitting your only colony then the virgin(s) will need a good supply of drones from several other colonies to get properly fertilised. If you are more than a mile or so away from other apiaries (with the right kind of drone!) you might think of putting your splits into nuc boxes and taking them closer to a supply of drones. And, of course, if you are successful in pushing your colony ahead of all the others in the area then they may not have mature drones when your queens are flying. Some will though - colonies in warm sunny spots in flowery Tobermory, for example, are likely to be far ahead of those on a wind-swept hillside.
Gavin

Gavin, a lovely afternoon here and a few of the ladies are staggering around their wee hoose.
Regarding the drones, I thought Beowulf stated that they could congregate at quite large distances. Unfortunately I have lent his book out and must get it back, it is such a good read. Whatever ,it is a valid point that I had not considered. Is this why some folk concentrate on drone rearing early in the season?

Again thanks for your input. I will be back!!!
POPZ

[gavin]

Hi Popz

Yes, drones will fly a long way, up to 40 miles I believe. Suddenly Mull doesn't seem so isolated from mainland Varroa! However if you want your queens well mated it is wise to consider having drones sources nearby, especially if the weather is unpredictable. Yes, some people put effort into early drone raising, particularly if they are hoping to raise early queens. In this case they would normally use several colonies for raising drones, as the genetic diversity you get from one colony is too small to sustain a population. On the other had you get more diversity in the queens from one colony, as they come from eggs fertilised with the semen from several drones.

all the best

Gavin

[POPZ]

Hi Popz Yes, some people put effort into early drone raising, particularly if they are hoping to raise early queens. In this case they would normally use several colonies for raising drones, as the genetic diversity you get from one colony is too small to sustain a population. On the other hand you get more diversity in the queens from one colony, as they come from eggs fertilised with the semen from several drones.
all the best - Gavin

Gavin - the latter bit above appears to be a contradiction of the former bit - if you follow me? I must be misunderstanding something here ??
POPZ

[Trog]

Yes, drones will fly a long way, up to 40 miles I believe. Suddenly Mull doesn't seem so isolated from mainland Varroa!

I wouldn't want anyone reading this to think it's OK to bring bees into Mull because mainland drones will bring in Varroa anyway. Fortunately, I don't think Morvern, Lorn and Ardnamurchan are so heavily populated with colonies, infested or otherwise, that this is likely ... but we still check once a year just in case.

[POPZ]

Hi Popz

Without bees occupying a second brood box you'll not have the same ability to split the colony to make increase, but if you get them working two brood boxes fully then you might be able to split one of those boxes into three nuclei to help solve that bee shortage on Mull. If you build them up then you might end up with two boxes full of bees and congested - that is when they are likely to make queen cells. Less prolific bees or a poorer environment for them might mean that they struggle to fill the two boxes and so don't go reproductive as that congestion is a trigger for queen raising. Gavin

Not sure here what you mean when you say 'Less prolific bees or a poorer environment for them might mean that they struggle to fill the two boxes and so don't go reproductive as that congestion is a trigger for queen raising.' I understand that I may be in a poorer environment but I don't understand why that should be a problem for double brood. Especially as I am now feeding in order to help the build up.
POPZ