Scottish Bee Health Surveillance report

[The Drone Ranger]

Whoops...think I might be turning into Doris with all the bold bits in the last post!

Not at all
Gosh I wish a £200K queen rearing project was funded where I could buy expertly bred and raised local(ish) queens for £15 or so
Now I suspect someone is going to say form a local breeding group
I have one of those
The members include me and errrr?? me
Plus everybody elses drones LoL
Perhaps an ideal position would be if the Gov consulted the SBA more and the SBA consulted its members

[Trog]

I wonder why HOBBY beekeepers expect to be subsidised by the government at all? It's one thing for folk who make their living in agriculture (and bee farming is an agricultural activity) to receive subsidies like all the other farmers but would one expect the government to fund the Dr Who Appreciation Society, the Morris Minor Owners Club, the Spaniel Breeders' Association? Yes, our activities are beneficial to the environment but on that basis I would expect payouts for my lovely wildflower meadows, recycling habits and much more.

Also worth remembering that the SBA is run by VOLUNTEERS, many of whom are also heavily involved in their local associations, teaching, mentoring new beekeepers, trying to run their own apiaries while raising nucs to help beginners ... and some even have full-time jobs and family to look after.

[drumgerry]

I don't think anyone is suggesting we get subsidised Trog. But don't you agree that there has to be an overall strategy for Scotland's bees? And who is to implement that strategy if not the people with the right experience ie hobby beekeepers? If you think that we can just leave it all to people's goodwill and voluntaryism then we're clearly not on the same page. The Scottish government think that Scotland's bees are worth investing in - so why not go about it in a way that benefits all of Scotland's beekeepers rather than a handful of commercial operators?

And the SBA are our national beekeeping body. I pay my £30 a year and I have a right to a say in how things proceed. Democracy at work and all that. If I think not enough is being done am I not entitled to say that? Should I just shut up and accept everything that happens because the committee is made up of volunteers?

And btw - all of those things you listed I'm doing myself with the added complication of a disabled child. So I know all about putting the work in for a greater good.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Trog
I think when Government spends money the general idea is seed money
The idea of subsidy or cash injections is that the economy or society benefits from it
Otherwise they could just buy me a new car because I need one and have a farm number for my smallholding
So commercial Beekeeping might have a case but it's not a strong one
It wont generate employment, economic activity, or social benefits and with no strings attached will benefit New Zealand far more than UK

Sadly the interests of Bee Farming and beekeepers generally are not in line.
Some beekeepers want a return to the fabled black bee of yesteryear
Some Just want the local bees to prevail and disease risk etc minimised
Me I just want the quiet life and a cure for chalkbrood

Of course Bee farming activities don't, won't, can't align with that (take you pick)
So it is best to say that rather than be dragged reluctantly into supporting subsidies just because beekeeping is involved we feel we should
If SBA campaigned for a ban on imports, and it looked like succeeding The Bee Farmers Association would be the first to say nay and thrice nay
If the outcomes were positive for Scotland's economy, and beekeeping in general I think most people would be happy enough to see it happen
another long boring post by me --don't you just hate it when that happens

PS I don't pay my £30 a year anymore so, although I can express disappointment, I have already voted with my feet as they say

[Trog]

Well, guys, rather than moaning about perceived lack of action by SBA, here's a suggestion. Go online and look for any subsidies/concessions/aid available to crofters who are, to a large extent, hobby farmers. Is there anything there we could use to make a case for SG help for hobby beekeepers? A bit of creative lateral thinking is in order perhaps.

For myself, having come indoors to cool off after hauling the shopping up the hill, I'm away to weed the shallots before the midges get any worse!

[Trog]

I don't think anyone is suggesting we get subsidised Trog. But don't you agree that there has to be an overall strategy for Scotland's bees? And who is to implement that strategy if not the people with the right experience ie hobby beekeepers? If you think that we can just leave it all to people's goodwill and voluntaryism then we're clearly not on the same page. The Scottish government think that Scotland's bees are worth investing in - so why not go about it in a way that benefits all of Scotland's beekeepers rather than a handful of commercial operators?

And the SBA are our national beekeeping body. I pay my £30 a year and I have a right to a say in how things proceed. Democracy at work and all that. If I think not enough is being done am I not entitled to say that? Should I just shut up and accept everything that happens because the committee is made up of volunteers?

And btw - all of those things you listed I'm doing myself with the added complication of a disabled child. So I know all about putting the work in for a greater good.

These .... things .... take .... time. SG doesn't move quickly. Negotiations can be long and drawn out. Perhaps as an Islander I have learned to be patient and not get all hot and bothered if I don't get what I want immediately! Just trying to add another angle to the debate.

[drumgerry]

Hey Trog we're all entitled to our point of view and that includes you!

Patience.....hmmmm. Not sure about that. The reason we're talking about this just now and the reason something needs done now is this £200k which has been announced. I think that things have been drifting for many years or even decades. We've been muddling along and relying on people's generosity with their time and effort. But we're at a moment where with a bit of vision and funding things could be made better for everyone. That needs to come from the SBA and government. People like me jumping up and down and asking for it to happen isn't going to cut it I don't think. Having said that if I lived in the Central Belt and had different family circumstances I'd get involved with the SBA and take an active hand in this. I do what I can in my own way but that's about it.

So.....unless I can think of anything more which I can usefully add I'll drop out of this thread as I feel I've made my thoughts pretty clear now!

[The Drone Ranger]

Earthing up potatoes for me today
Bad news is rain is helping all the weed seedlings re-root now
Re the SBA and being active in running it etc I think it was Churchill who said
" They also serve who only sit and pay"

[Trog]

OK, Drumgerry, what do you want money for? And I mean your association as we can't expect SG to hand out money to individuals. How much do you need?

As for being more involved, distance is no object - just check out the magazine to see where the ICT convener, bee health convener and a couple of area reps live! The AGM was available on Skype this year. All the email addresses are on the inside front page, too, so you can contact anyone you fancy talking to. You could even write to the magazine to get your views aired more widely than in here.

[Trog - trying to be helpful and constructive ...]

[drumgerry]

Ok Trog...I guess I have to add something!

You maybe missed the bit where I said I have a disabled child and the limits that places on how involved I can get. I am involved at a local level and this year helped to start a new association in my area.

I don't want any money! It's not about the money (cue Jessie J!). Well it is a bit. I've said this all before on the forum so I'm going to repeat myself - sorry. My preference is for a strategy to be developed and implemented which gets us to a point where in Scotland we become self-sufficient in bees. Sounds a bit vague maybe. The specific sorts of things I want to happen are the choice to be made at a Scottish government and SBA level to do everything we can to help our native bees. At a practical level the sort of stuff I'd like to see in place are the setting up of queen breeding stations for the breeding of native bees and the proper provision of training and equipment to associations or individuals (not sure what the problem is with individuals getting such help) to allow them to breed queens and produce nucs. Not something which can happen overnight I accept but to take steps in that direction and to make the choice that it's the way to go needs to happen now.

Oh it'll never happen I can hear people saying but they do it in Germany and Switzerland for example so why not here? The simple fact is that things are not working at the moment. Winter losses are high and there are no bees to replace them and no systems in place to provide bees. So the commercial guys import what they need. And beginners buy nucs headed by Buckfasts or Carnies bred in mainland Europe. Something needs to change and here's the Scottish government throwing £200k at a situation which will not be solved by such a short term solution. If next winter's as bad the Bee Farmers Association will be lobbying for help again.

I suspect that my views are being aired widely enough on this forum and I don't want to get involved in a "letters page" slanging match. They are tiresome to read and wasteful of magazine space!

So there you have it. My plan to solve Scotland's beekeeping ills!