No answer to specific questions Doris? You don't change do you?
No answer to specific questions Doris? You don't change do you?
I had to go out, I have no problem explaining why there are not enough analysis done that prove the neonic connection.Originally Posted by drumgerry
For a start, most beekeepers are thoroughly misinformed about CCD and other signs of neonic damage.
They are told that their colonies dwindle away for all sorts of reasons, so they never even think of having an analysis done.
Secondly, the National Bee Unit only asks for bees for sampling if poisoning is suspected.
Most hives that die from neonics have hardly any bees left that could be tested. A much better way of finding neonics is by testing wax and propolis from the hive, but nobody tells that to the ordinary beekeeper.
It looks like the NBU doesn't want to find samples positive for neonics.
You're still not really answering the question.
Dr Connolly implies that his 21% dead colonies from the east (still no proper definition of where that is) as against 5% from the west is down to intensive agriculture and by association neonics. My specific question is how can that be said when as far as I know there has been no pesticide analysis done of those colonies? It is therefore pure speculation what the causes of death of those colonies are. Speculation which fits your agenda but speculation nonetheless.
Maybe my example of over-exposure to oxygen as an equally valid reason for their deaths was a flippant one but it made the point that in the absence of any proof any cause can be made to fit
And another thing -
You said:If this is the case (although I have my doubts) was it the case that the colonies in Dr Connolly's research were left with few bees in the hive? If this is a diagnostic feature of neonic death was it present in most of the colony deaths recorded in the "east"? If not maybe it wasn't neonics at all. Maybe it was varroa or varroa-vectored viruses. Or isolation starvation or any number of ordinary causes for colony death.
Wherever Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) has turned up, it was in conjunction with the use of neonics, usually in agricultural areas, but sometimes near orchards, golf courses or parks which were treated with these pesticides.
I know that there's a small army of people out there that try to confuse this basic fact, but I think I know where they come from.
I don't know Dr. Connolly's data in detail so I can't answer your questions.
Why don't you send him an email and ask him.
I have full confidence in his assessment of the situation, and it fits in with all the other independent research that has been published on the topic.
As for the studies financed by Bayer, well they seem to come to different conclusions, but they are by far in the minority.
Last edited by Stromnessbees; 09-03-2013 at 10:06 PM.
You don't know Dr Connolly's data in detail yet you're happy to quote it where it supports your position that CCD = neonic poisoning. My view of what he has published is that the conclusions it comes to are seriously flawed. We could endlessly go around the houses and I could give you a platform to repeat what you've repeated ad nauseam on every beekeeping forum known to man which hasn't banned you yet but I don't think I will.
You say there's an army of people out there confusing the "basic fact" about neonics and you know where they're coming from. Where is that Doris? Isn't it the case that you believe that anyone who questions your position on neonics is in the pay of the pesticide companies? Isn't it the case that you believe that the main UK beekeeping forums are run by people in the pay of the pesticide companies?
Only partially correct, there are other influences besides money.
They certainly do their best to create that impression.
Isn't it the case that you believe that the main UK beekeeping forums are run by people in the pay of the pesticide companies?
So Doris do you think I am in the pay or under the influence of the pesticide companies?
AFAIK I have never met you, I can only guess.
Oh well that's progress. I can state a position opposite to yours without being accused of taking backhanders from Bayer etc
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