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Thread: Scotsman article today on some work by Dr. Connolly.

  1. #1

    Default Scotsman article today on some work by Dr. Connolly.

    This should be of interest to all: http://www.scotsman.com/news/environ...land-1-2807966

    The statement that farmers are required to record all pesticide treatments on their land, but nobody seems to collate the information,so it is not available when conducting research, is quite telling.

    In my view, no farmers should be allowed to put biocides on their land without a demonstrable need. Sounds draconian, but it's necessary to avoid farmland becoming a sterile green desert.
    Last edited by Johnthefarmer; 25-02-2013 at 02:28 PM.

  2. #2

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    According to the article there are no conclusions as to the specific reasons for the east-west difference.
    Possible conclusions prefaced with "it could be".
    So, could be all sorts of reasons.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Comb View Post
    According to the article there are no conclusions as to the specific reasons for the east-west difference.
    Possible conclusions prefaced with "it could be".
    So, could be all sorts of reasons.
    True, but the east/west differences are quite stark.

    Even though the specific causes remain unidentified, the challenge to bees from intensive agriculture has to be a major suspect.

  4. #4
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    Seems a fairly small scale study for such a grand set of conclusions.
    Could they not have got some of the big beefarmers to join in and boost the numbers ?

    Will the weather differences between east and west not have made a huge difference to colony survival or did they take this into account ?

    I have to say it would be interesting to have a central record of pesticide use though - I am surprised this doesn't exist.

  5. #5

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    We all hate' red tape'.

    Sometimes though, it's useful stuff!

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greengumbo View Post
    Seems a fairly small scale study for such a grand set of conclusions.
    Could they not have got some of the big beefarmers to join in and boost the numbers ?
    Murray McGregor offered to include his 1000 or so colonies to the survey but they were excluded for some reason.
    They are spread all over Scotland, with or without exposure to arable land.
    His losses were, from memory between 3%-6%. He wrote about this on beekeeping forum if you can chase up the thread.
    I think there was also an article in Scottish Beekeeper magazine.
    Murray said there is no difference at all regarding location. He found a better winter survival rate in Poly boxes over wooden boxes.

  7. #7

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    So, your point is,Jon, that none of the suspected threats to bees from intensive farming practices in the east of scotland are valid? (is valid?}
    Last edited by Johnthefarmer; 25-02-2013 at 07:54 PM. Reason: pedanticism?

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Given the very large statistically significant associations noted by experienced bee scientists elsewhere in the refereed scientific literature between colony losses and:

    - Varroa mite counts in Oct
    - virus levels (vectored by Varroa) in sampled bees
    - colony strength

    then a study that doesn't record, in any kind of methodical way, these variables then implies that correlation with geography means that pesticides are a likely cause is, pure and simply, poor science.

    How good were the Varroa treatments performed by the beekeepers in the East? Were they experienced beekeepers who knew how to get colonies up to strength in a poor season (in the east) or relative beginners who tend to lose colonies overwinter especially in difficult times? What proportion of the 'west' colonies were in Varroa-free areas? How good was the Varroa control in the main responding areas in the west? The mention by Dr Connolly of Fife tends to suggest that there may be a particularly local effect in operation there.

    After the first of Dr Connolly's articles in the Scottish Beekeeper on their findings I visited Murray and as a result wrote this, also published in the magazine. Apologies for the rotated PDF. Go to 'View', and rotate counter-clockwise. The first item is a letter written by Dr Stephen Palmer, the second is the article discussing the significance of east-west data.

    http://www.sbai.org.uk/misc/septembe...hbeekeeper.pdf

    A colleague tells me that the data collected on farm pesticide use is held and is available for bona fide researchers. There should have been no problem with Dr Connolly accessing it, but instead he complains to the Parliamentary Environmental Audit Committee and the Scotsman that it isn't even gathered. Why?

    Gavin

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post

    A colleague tells me that the data collected on farm pesticide use is held and is available for bona fide researchers. There should have been no problem with Dr Connolly accessing it, but instead he complains to the Parliamentary Environmental Audit Committee and the Scotsman that it isn't even gathered. Why?

    Gavin
    That's an interesting divergence of opinion between you and your old friend, Dr. Connolly.

    He says the information is not available,you say it is.

    There's only one way to settle this.....(TV BURP!)

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    Senior Member chris's Avatar
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    "But they criticised the way data on pesticide use is, or rather is not, gathered, saying the current system makes it impossible to properly determine what is causing honey bees to die."

    So the rest is mere speculation??

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