Neonicotinoids and CCD

[Stromnessbees]

This thread originally began life here on Page 2. As this is the point where it branched into a new line of discussion I have moved the relevant posts into this thread.

Regards

Nellie


Thank you for all your replies.

But I have to tell you: it wasn't acarine, it wasn't varroa. It wasn't bad beekeeping or wood honey either.
- It was CCD, colony collapse disorder, caused by neonic contaminated pollen from seed treated maize.

A look at the maps showed that the affected apiaries were within flying ranges of seed treated crops, those in areas of organic agriculture or even areas with traditional spraying were fine.

Austrian beekeepers are furious and will push for a ban by next year:

(watch from 9:15)
http://tvthek.orf.at/programs/1310-Report


And just in case anybody here thinks their bees are safe as maize is not a common crop here: the neonicotinoids from oilseed rape can affect your bees too and lead to higher numbers of varroa, outbreaks of nosema and early failure of queens due to the delayed toxic effects of these very persistent systemic pesticides.

[Neils]

And just in case anybody here thinks their bees are safe as maize is not a common crop here: the neonicotinoids from oilseed rape can affect your bees too and lead to higher numbers of varroa, outbreaks of nosema and early failure of queens due to the delayed toxic effects of these very persistent systemic pesticides.

What's the source for this Doris?

Again, have to ask, given the number of people, commercial and hobbyist, who deliberately take their bees to OSR, where are the mass bee die offs as a result? Despite the media claiming these pesticides as "new" they've been kicking around since the early 90's.

[Calum]

Hi

neonicotinoids is like viagra for varroa. Under a microscope they are blue.
Its true!

[Stromnessbees]

What's the source for this Doris?

Again, have to ask, given the number of people, commercial and hobbyist, who deliberately take their bees to OSR, where are the mass bee die offs as a result? Despite the media claiming these pesticides as "new" they've been kicking around since the early 90's.

Oilseed rape flowers earlier than maize, so the winterbee production is not affected the same.
Your summer bees might have a shortened lifespan, too, leading to reduced yields later on. And you can still get a depressed immune system, higher incidence of varroa, and, as Roger Patterson has been saying for a long time now, persistent problems with queens and queenrearing.

[Neils]

Don't believe that Roger has ever publicly linked queen rearing issues to neonicotinoids. I know of at least one beekeeper who directly links queen rearing problems, or more directly Drone fertility to Pyrethoid use (by beekeepers) though.

You are making assertions that this is established "fact" and I'm not sure I agree with you and especially in the context of this forum I think that needs to be challenged/clarified.

I've seen nothing linking neonicotinoids to increased varroa, that I am very interested in so more than happy for you to point me in the direction of further reading on that subject.

[Stromnessbees]

Don't believe that Roger has ever publicly linked queen rearing issues to neonicotinoids. I know of at least one beekeeper who directly links queen rearing problems, or more directly Drone fertility to Pyrethoid use (by beekeepers) though.

Sorry, I wrote that a bit too fast. You are right that Roger has not made that link, but the areas where those queen problems have been observed are the ones with oilseed rape. No queen problems in Orkney!

[Stromnessbees]

I've seen nothing linking neonicotinoids to increased varroa, that I am very interested in so more than happy for you to point me in the direction of further reading on that subject.

Randy Oliver states a clear link between neonics and varroa and nosema in his assessment of the Harvard study:

So why did the colonies die? Such insecticide exposure to hives in late
summer has been clearly demonstrated to greatly increase the chance of a
colony later dying from nosema or varroa infection during the winter. In
this study, poisoning the colonies all through late summer and early fall
likely hampered the ability of the colonies to prepare a healthy population
for winter.

[Neils]

"Such insecticide exposure" in the context of that study implies exposure at elevated levels though.

[Jon]

Oilseed rape flowers earlier than maize, so the winterbee production is not affected the same.
Your summer bees might have a shortened lifespan, too, leading to reduced yields later on. And you can still get a depressed immune system, higher incidence of varroa, and, as Roger Patterson has been saying for a long time now, persistent problems with queens and queenrearing.

Doris. This is pure blether with no evidence as per usual. I had 20 acres of of seed rape beside my bees last year and I reared 110 mated queens. There were a couple superseded out of that lot.
I have 18 colonies of bees doing very well at the moment. I lost one 2 frame nuc over winter to nosema.

There is maize planted in my area as well. Bees rarely go near it when there are other pollen sources available.
Lest we forget it is primarily a wind pollinated species.
the biggest problem with maize is during the month of May when the seed is drilled as planter dust is incredibly toxic if care is not taken. I posted a link to a US report on this a couple of weeks ago.
Where you have monoculture maize, bees tend to have problems - because it is a monoculture and they do not get varied sources of pollen.

Early supersedure has been linked to nosema in research going back to the 1940s. Use google scholar and you will pull out a few references.
Some of the commercial queen rearers claim that pyrethroid strips have caused early supersedure of queens.

You are obsessively trying to twist all the evidence to support the idea that neonicotinoids are behind bee problems, ie the tripling of colony numbers in the UK in 3 years. Great problem to have.

The photos you posted from Germany look like straight varroa kill. Have you much experience treating or identifying varroa affected colonies?

[Stromnessbees]

The photos you posted from Germany look like straight varroa kill. Have you much experience treating or identifying varroa affected colonies?

Yes I have from my beekeeping time in Austria and from working with beekeepers there. I personally checked the dead sealed brood and the hive floors of the dead colonies and varroa was not the reason for their collapse.

Anyway, ever since I have seen you twisting those Harvard study figures from 40 times to 400 times and seen how you failed to point out the parasitic fly hoax I take everything you say with a pinch of salt. Maybe it's not too late for you to get yourself a bit more education in biology so that you can learn how to read scientific studies properly.