Are neonicotinoid pesticides responsible for the demise of bees and other wildlife?

[madasafish]

In Spain 20+% of the population is unemployed (officially). Similar figures from elsewhere. The idea that we have to continually replace workers on farms with systems and products requiring fewer and fewer staff, especially as the work can be fullfilling and the outcomes better, is rubbish.
The job of working the land and producing our food is central,fundamental to any society. Why are we content to leave it all in the control of irresponsible multinationals to carve up our
most productive agricultural areas, with the only motive being shareholder profits?
No doubt I can be accused of naivete, communism, hippiedom or whatever, but really, the idea that,say, in Spain, youths are hanging around idle watching big tractors spraying massive areas of monocrops, when intensive mixed farming smallholdings would produce more,better food is at least frustrating.

And what has any of the above to do with beekeeping?

[Johnthefarmer]

I stand by that clumsy phrase!

Even here, in happy Orkney, the average age of farmers goes up every year.i.e. there are not that many replacements lining up to farm. I think the story is similar in very many areas.
What could change this situation?
My own kids show no inclination to take on my farm, so it will probably be swallowed up by a bigger neighbour.
Dairy boys are up in arms.
This place is beautiful, if tough.
Not a big point to this post, except that somebody has to keep on the thread of
knowledge about how to keep things viable.
What we are being offered by the limited advisory services is skewed in many respects. They are all required to be self-funding.
To think that Orkney, or anywhere else, is going to be benefitted by even a limited corporate takeover is questionable; but it could happen.
Any suggestions?

[Johnthefarmer]

And what has any of the above to do with beekeeping?

MADASAFISH! you said it. And next time round the bowl, think about it....

[Calum]

Even here, in happy Orkney, the average age of farmers goes up every year.i.e. there are not that many replacements lining up to farm. I think the story is similar in very many areas.
What could change this situation?
My own kids show no inclination to take on my farm, so it will probably be swallowed up by a bigger neighbour.
Dairy boys are up in arms.
This place is beautiful, if tough.
Not a big point to this post, except that somebody has to keep on the thread of
knowledge about how to keep things viable.
What we are being offered by the limited advisory services is skewed in many respects. They are all required to be self-funding.
To think that Orkney, or anywhere else, is going to be benefitted by even a limited corporate takeover is questionable; but it could happen.
Any suggestions?

Carp, seriously thats what I'll be doing if I ever give up life in Germany for a life in the Russian countryside.
I agree the price of milk is appaling, but there are still plenty of niche markets where plenty of money can be earned.
Never seen a farmer here that doesent drive a bmw or merc. - As they say:
In der Not isst der Bauer die Wurst auch ohne Brot
(in bad times farmers eat their sausage without bread.)

[chris]

Hi Chris
yes my dandelion/ apple blossom I have to heat. 30°C 24 hours is enough to get it moving, low loss of enzymes and hydroxthingy buildup at that temperature.
the runny honey you get in asda has been pasturised, a big difference.
whats wrong with spin extraction (as long as its not a humid day?).

Hi Calum, just to keep this thread totally off subject,if you're comparing your heating with the hypermarket suppliers, then there's nothing to be said. A quick taste is worth a thousand words. As for spin extraction, well, I too use an extractor, but if,when bored, I crush and strain the occasional comb, I find the honey full of subtle flavours that seem to be dulled by its splatting against the side of the extractor. I have a book by Mathias Thun, and on rereading the honey section, I'm wondering if there isn't a culture difference in what German or French customers expect from the honey they buy.

And the Scots?

[Johnthefarmer]

Hi Calum, just to keep this thread totally off subject,if you're comparing your heating with the hypermarket suppliers, then there's nothing to be said. A quick taste is worth a thousand words. As for spin extraction, well, I too use an extractor, but if,when bored, I crush and strain the occasional comb, I find the honey full of subtle flavours that seem to be dulled by its splatting against the side of the extractor. I have a book by Mathias Thun, and on rereading the honey section, I'm wondering if there isn't a culture difference in what German or French customers expect from the honey they buy.

And the Scots?

We're more concerned with factors which affect worldwide biodiversity: corporate dominance, profits before general benefit, and the considerable problem of misinformation diseminated by parties either paid by, or indirectly paid by, those companies producing products which contribute to the destuction of our global natural balance.
Even here,in Orkney, several shops sell a Bayer product ,Provado?,to spray on roses against aphids. There are hardly any aphids here, but presumably people still spray these neonics about their blooms due to marketing persuasion.
The effect of this practice is the reduction of the insect population, fewer worms, butterflies,bumblebees, honeybees etc.
Does the SBA hierarchy support the marketing of such products? Or anybody else who thinks about it?

[Jon]

the considerable problem of misinformation diseminated by parties...

yes I have a big problem with propaganda as well.

The corporate stuff is only to be expected and anyone with a pulse can see through it.
The stuff coming from the save the planet eco warriors is disappointing when it ignores the facts, the science, the best practice.
The rules with regard to the truth apply to both sides.

But hey JTF. This is a beekeeping forum rather than a vehicle for your anti corporate world view.

Lets hear how your bees have coped this year. Mine have done really well in a season dominated by constant rainfall.

[HJBee]

Does the SBA hierarchy support the marketing of such products?

John, I understand and in principle agree with some of your general points around global monoculture and Eco / environmental aspects. I also respect your obvious passion. But where you let yourself down is statements like the above. Who are you referring to with the above and what is your evidence, as I am at a loss to see senior SBA committee or holders of formal posts promoting such things, and the last Scottish beekeeper being fairly supportive and open to theories that you and Doris have shared on this subject.

[Rosie]

Lets hear how your bees have coped this year. Mine have done really well in a season dominated by constant rainfall.

I realise this wasn't addressed to me but mine haven't done as well as usual this year. I've had plenty of virgins mate successfully and managed to satisfy all my beginner's requirements for nucs but they built up more slowly than usual and my honey harvest is a disaster. Apart from that my established colonies are all in rude health with zero summer failures and I am hoping that the weather will be good enough from now on to get me a heather crop. The only real feeding I have had to do was for my nucs. I saw some deformed wings around May and was expecting to have to treat before the Autumn but that has not proved to be the case.

The only problems I get are due to the weather but that has always been the case, even in an arable district surrounded by rape.

Steve

[Jon]

Hi Steve.

My queens mated well this summer (beside oil seed rape) and I think the weather may have helped as only hardy drones were on the wing.
I have 0ver 30 queens from 30 apideas and lots of group members got mated queens as well.
I have a lot of mine introduced to nucs.
Some people reported all their (yellow) drones kicked out in June.
I have not seen any early or unexpected supersedure this year.
My colonies are still packed with drones although most of the queens have stopped laying in the drone comb and this is getting backfilled with honey.
I did a final batch of grafting and have 80 cells ready for apideas next week.

I only had 4 colonies try and swarm out of about 15 although I did lose a couple of clipped queens when I was away during July.

I also think my mite count is low as I have started treating nucs and am not seeing a significant drop.

I got some honey off at the start of June and hope to have about 20 more supers to extract. Good forecast for the next few days as well.