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Thread: Are neonicotinoid pesticides responsible for the demise of bees and other wildlife?

  1. #111
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    I'm not offended yet. Try harder!

  2. #112
    Senior Member chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madasafish View Post
    There are a lot of TBH newbies doomed to disappointment and failure as the methods advised are unrealistic for the climate outside a warm southern UK
    I was obviously not clear in my question. What interested me was not the newbies- there are beekeepers of all ages and levels of experience, using all sorts of hives in many different climates and following various practices (good luck to all of them, they're all half crazy anyway to be doing it). What interested me was the part about a Warré being unrealistic outside of a warm southern UK climate.

    Quote Originally Posted by madasafish
    TBHs will winter very well even in bad climates but you need to winterise # them
    Thanks for answering.I think this can be applied to all hives. The altitude of your garden shouldn't be a problem. Marc Gatineau who lives along the next valley from me, and is at an altitude of 900m. ran 300 Warrés for over 30years.
    Last edited by gavin; 24-07-2012 at 09:14 AM. Reason: Just made them quotes work

  3. #113
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    We've gone in this thread from discussing the nuttier end of beekeeping campaigning blogs to full-on beekeeping in boxes without side and bottom bars to the frames. OK if we ship this bit to the 'Alternative' section? Do feel free to continue here meantime.

  4. #114
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calum View Post
    I'm not offended yet. Try harder!
    Me neither*. Just want to point out that there is something weird about this section. It makes normally very polite people come out with all sorts of harsh statements for some inexplicable reason. It does to me on a regular basis!

    * Memory loss there - I should say that nothing in the thread has offended me for several days.
    Last edited by gavin; 24-07-2012 at 12:40 PM.

  5. #115
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    I thought's Madasafish's points were perfectly clear to be honest.

    Unless it's me that's misunderstood it you've got got a lot of willing new beekeepers being sold the line that Top Bar and Warre hives are these magical contraptions that allow bees to live free and the rest of us are a load of chemical using, moustache twirling baddies that are the root cause of the problems for bees and steal all their honey to boot. This is exactly what a lot of these guys want to hear and they have neither the knowledge or experience to spot that they're being sold a load of old crap.

    That was the not a million miles away from my entry into beekeeping, but fortunately I worked out it was a load of crap before I got any bees, many of them (bees or new beekeepers) aren't so lucky when they're entering via this route.

  6. #116
    Senior Member chris's Avatar
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    Yeah, I agree Nellie. I was just interested in the wintering part, but obviously only half read the sentence.
    Back in the '70's when getting back to the land was the in thing, and most were buying smallholdings in Wales, I had a friend who set up a specialized business selling Welsh smallholdings. He put one ad. a week in Exchange and Mart. Someone bought, tried to make a living by self sufficiency, went bust, and sold. So my mate was selling the same places over and over again every 2 years. He made a fortune.It's the same now with the TBH ers and their Gurus who run classes for them. BUT people have dreams. Let them live them- if they don't fall in one trap they'll fall in another.I'm not sure it's naïve-I just think some people need that.
    edit: there is a name for them in France: bobos (bourgeois bohemiens)
    I call them urban ecologists.
    Last edited by chris; 24-07-2012 at 10:12 AM.

  7. #117
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    I'll leave Madasafish to elborate on wintering with those hives.

    But I agree on the general point, a few of the older guys have made the allusion to "The Good Life" phenomena of the 70's to the current climate of beekeeping.

    In some respects whatever you tell people there will be those who'll want to give it a go anyway and I don't really have a problem with that. Across the entire spectrum of beekeeping there are people all too happy to take cash off willing [prospective] new beekeepers while it's in fashion and those are the people I do have a problem with, whether it's peddling an ethos that beekeeping is easy or if we just stuck them in a/this type of box and leave them alone they'll be fine or if you use this hive you'll be taking pots of honey to your dinner parties in no time or the guys all to happy to sell a box of problems described as a Nuc.

    And you'll certainly get no argument from me about dealing with the 40+ year experience beekeepers and not just about immediate beekeeping matters either.

  8. #118
    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris View Post
    ... bobos (bourgeois bohemiens)
    I'm learning some good new words on this forum. 'Bobos' from Chris, and Nellie's 'bee bimble' of earlier (but I knew what a shill was).
    Kitta

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    I agree, some of the worst beekeepers I know are the 40 year + brigade.
    Reluctant to change in the face of new threats, terrible handlers, obstructive of those who want to move things forward in the local association etc.
    OH NO! I have been rumbled by Jon (30 years + by they way)

    [QUOTE]edit: there is a name for them in France: bobos (bourgeois bohemiens)
    I call them urban ecologists.[QUOTE]

    Up here we call them Good Lifers and none of them look like Felicty Kendal
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/people/f...son_page.shtml
    Last edited by lindsay s; 24-07-2012 at 11:23 PM.

  10. #120
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Only kidding. My father has been keeping bees 50+ years so I had better not fall out with him.

    Anyway, you did right to start this thread as the best way to deal with crazy claims in blogs like this is to highlight the nonsense for all to see.

    Varroa mite infestation as a symptom of neonicotinoid poisoning will be hard to top.

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