Bee breeding/improvement groups

[Jon]

all that work could be stood on its head in a single season.

I worry about that as well but the trick is to hold on to 2 or 3 year old queens which have the right genetics and have mated with the right drones.
If the matings are particularly bad in a given season you would still have some decent queens to graft from in the following season.
If you graft from known genetics your drone colonies should always be ok irrespective of the matings.
I have about half a dozen colonies with a lot of yellow banded bees but all the drones are black. I am 100% confident about the queen these queens were grafted from so they are perfect as drone producers. I would never graft from any of these.

[prakel]

If the matings are particularly bad in a given season you would still have some decent queens to graft from in the following season.

A sound reason for forming breeding groups -even if they take the form of more loosely knit groups of co-operating keepers that willingly swap queens between themselves. In some ways it might be just as beneficial for 'swap groups' to be encouraged in the sense that the different participants (so long as they agree on breeding local queens or agree on a pure race) will be working from their own selection and management criteria within an agreed locality and may find that their parallel efforts speed up the over-all improvement of the local stock. Of course, the idea falls short if the amazingly small proportion of keepers breeding their own stock in NI is representative of the rest of the UK.

[Feckless Drone]

Something that hit me coming to end of my first season of trying to keep bees was how important it is to be able to raise your own Qs - I'm learning (4 recently mated Qs this year) but I am not sure that any 1 of them would meet Jon's criteria for selective breeding. That bit I'll have to work on. This really is a subject to emphasize in beginners courses and an important activity for local associations. its also quite good fun to try and get things working right.

FD

[Jon]

Raising your own queens is a better starting point than buying an imported queen and mixing up the gene pool.
The main problem I see is that people tend to make up nucs with whatever queen cells they have available.
My best colonies rarely make queen cells so unless you are grafting from them, these ones will be ignored at the expense of the colonies with swarmy genetics which make queen cells at the drop of a hat.
There seems to be a scene here whereby someone finding a queen cell in whatever colony thinks it is a good idea to make up a nuc with it.
I am encouraging group members to destroy queen cells they find in their own colonies and replace them with grafted ones from better stock.
If a colony has just swarmed the part left behind is perfect for requeening or for raising a frame of grafts. (after removal of its own queen cells)

It is really difficult to be a beekeeper if your bees are swarmy and/or aggressive.

[Feckless Drone]

It is really difficult to be a beekeeper if your bees are swarmy and/or aggressive.

Oh yes! That's lesson 1 from my first year and why in my Q raising efforts I've begged Q-cell from one of Gavin's colonies that is very well behaved and by prioritising one of my colonies over the other. And why the italian looking swarm Q is unlikely to go into winter. Fully agree with idea of careful selection and for the role that association/groups might play to help get people started with the right type of colony. But appreciate here in Tayside there are issues that would complicate getting, for example pure Amm established.

FD

[The Drone Ranger]

I wonder how many beekeepers there are in Scotland ?
SBA membership is around 1200 or so
Now if that averaged out at about 5 hives each that's 6000 hives
I suspect that figure would be dwarfed by the number of commercial hives moving around the country.

[gavin]

I hope to look at mine tomorrow FD, but the last time I looked several nucs with virgin queens from those two gentle stocks were sitting in colonies with highly polished areas surrounded by arcs of pollen.

As far the relative numbers of hobby and commercial stocks goes, Murray is the one with apiaries in the area of the association apiary. His stocks in that area are the ones he calls native types and the imported NZ carnies are elsewhere. Plus we have a truly isolated site in mind with permission from the owners, and control of the genetics at each end of that valley. Just not enough stocks and time yet to use it. The combination of a central nucleus of purer stocks feeding into (and using selected queens from) a broader network of apiaries in more mixed areas sounds like a good plan to me. As long as there is energy and commitment amongst those who would like to make it happen, and that is never an unlimited resource - including from me. Belfast is very fortunate to have Jon.

[drumgerry]

I wonder how many beekeepers there are in Scotland ?
SBA membership is around 1200 or so
Now if that averaged out at about 5 hives each that's 6000 hives
I suspect that figure would be dwarfed by the number of commercial hives moving around the country.

Here in Moray we have approx 120 members in our association and maybe a max of 20 of them are in the SBA. I'd not be surprised if a similar situation pertained in the rest of Scotland. So maybe a fair bit more than your 6000 hives DR?

[The Drone Ranger]

Here in Moray we have approx 120 members in our association and maybe a max of 20 of them are in the SBA. I'd not be surprised if a similar situation pertained in the rest of Scotland. So maybe a fair bit more than your 6000 hives DR?

Hi Drumgerry

Your probably right about the number of beekeepers
How many hives would you estimate your Association would have in total ?
Are there commercial beekeeping operations in your association area ?

[drumgerry]

Hi DR

Maybe about 50% and rising have actual bees. I say and rising as some of the bee-less ones are getting bees from swarms etc. Estimated hive numbers? Maybe 3-400. Our secretary has 50+ and a maybe a dozen others including me have more than 10. So 3-400 might be a reasonable estimate. As far as I know we don't have any commercial beeks operating in Moray.

I think I'm reasonably accurate on SBA membership and reported the same to Alasdair Joyce during an SBA skype video conference a couple of weeks ago.