Canadian poisonings

[beeanne]

Surely: 10-something years ago beekeeping is unpopular hobby frequented by v elderly men in bad jumpers= there are fewer beekeepers (as they go tp the apiary in the sky) therefore fewer colonies.
Then: beekeeping becomes "trendy" hobby (see: attractictive Ocadians :-) with fewer cordroy patches on elbows) and colony numbers increase.

I don't see proof of anything in that. Are you not both arguing about nothing? The figures are nothing other than "lies damn statistics and misquotes" or however it goes.

[drumgerry]

Repetition seems necessary when minds are shut.

Doris would I be right in concluding from that, that you believe a closed-minded position to be one that's unacceptable then?! I think anyone who's read anything you've said in this last while would not unreasonably accuse you of that. My advice - subscribe to BEE-L and read the archives carefully and at length.

[Stromnessbees]

I don't see proof of anything in that. Are you not both arguing about nothing? The figures are nothing other than "lies damn statistics and misquotes" or however it goes.

You are right, of course.

As soon as there are major financial interests involved, important figures will be stretched or shrunk in order to achieve a desired picture.

In this case the financial interest is enormous. Just imagine the loss to Bayer if neonics were banned immediately!

That's why we need to look at all the figures available, examine them for their authenticity and try to interpret them correctly.

[Stromnessbees]

My advice - subscribe to BEE-L and read the archives carefully and at length.

I have been reading BeeL for quite a while:
Unfortunately it also seems to have a certain number of prominent posters which claim to be neutral interpreters of science, yet when you dig a bit deeper you'll find that they are not so independent at all.

[drumgerry]

Please elaborate Doris. This thinly veiled conspiracy cr*p is most tiresome.

[Jon]

http://www.bbka.org.uk/news_and_even..._survey_200910
estimated increase of 40,000 to 80,000 from 2009-2010

http://www.bbka.org.uk/news_and_even...ey_survey_2010
A further 50% increase in colony numbers mentioned at end 2010

http://www.bbka.org.uk/files/library...1314733047.pdf
By 2011 the colony numbers are now claimed to be 230,000

http://www.pollinator.org/PDFs/OPERAReport.pdf
Try the graph on page 11 showing percentage uk colony losses from 1965 to 1990. Over 30% one year (1987, neonicotinoids not invented yet!!) and most years over 10%

[Calum]

Doris have you mixed up being a scientist with being a scientologist?
Because so far your input has been frankly been well below what I would expect from the former, but your assertations as unfounded as the latter.
Again you are responding to serious questioning with putdowns and implication of financial intersts of the people who are questioning your arguments.
I think that you have a fairly simple problem - your belief that the majority of colony deaths are attributable at least to some extent to the company Bayer is clouding your judgement. Your inflexability to be able to even attempt to question this belief is costing you every shred of credibility you have had.
Please walk a mile in another set of shoes as the ones you are wearing wore out long ago.

[chris]

This thread, concerning Canada, has quickly turned to a reiteration of all the other pro/contra *pesticides done it threads*. So I feel free to post something that has nothing to do with the Canadian poisoning.

I live and keep bees in an area that is isolated and largely free from agriculture.The little farming that goes on is organic. The department has the largest acreage of organic farming in France.I know of no pesticide use nearby. I was talking with the bee inspector for this area (who has been a beekeeper since his early years, like his father and grandfather) and he told me that colonies in the area have been on the decrease for about 30 years. For him, the main reasons are the changing climate; poor beekeeping methods;very little spring forage caused by the tractor replacing the horse and farmers stopping to grow lucerne which was the spring build up plant; an illness that has been decimating the lavender; the fairly massive importation by bee farmers of bees that are not adapted to the local conditions. I asked about pesticides and he shrugged (Gallic) and said "Not around here".
I'm not saying that pesticides have no harmful effects, Simply that there are steady bee losses that cannot be pinned on them.

[Jon]

I was at a presentation given by Jamie Ellis last year and he has a graph which shows how the decline in US colony numbers since 1945 runs parallel to a line showing relative bulk honey price.

The link I posted to pollinator org has a lot of information about where colony numbers are increasing and decreasing worldwide. There are winners and losers and economic factors and varroa play a part.

It also had a very interesting quotation from 'Project Melissa' in Austria, one which Doris has mentioned here and elsewhere as providing evidence for pesticide damage to bees via neonicotinoid seed treated maize.

Austria
Another monitoring project with focus on neonicotinoid seed treatment products is the MELISSA Project
in Austria. In this project, particular attention is directed to the investigation of any damage to bees that is
reported in association of growing maize. (Latest report: Girsch and Moosbeckhofer, 2011). According to
preliminary results, the safety of neonicotinoid seed treatment products to honey bees can be sufficiently
ensured when the prescribed security measures for the use of these products are complied with.

Gosh. Now that is not what we were told but it brings us nicely back to where this thread started about problems occurring when the products are used incorrectly especially with regard to planter dust and the expelled talc.

[AlexJ]

I'm not sure it's worth contributing to the debate anymore - but as I've posted elsewhere the UNEP pamphlet (2010)

GLOBAL HONEY BEE COLONY DISORDERS AND OTHER THREATS TO INSECT
POLLINATORS

Notes:

2.1 Europe

A decrease in managed honey bee colony numbers in Europe has been observed since 1965, but the pattern is diverse14. Since 1998, individual beekeepers have been reporting unusual weakening and mortality in colonies, particularly in France, Belgium, Switzerland, Germany, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Italy and Spain. Mortality has been extremely high when activity is resumed at the end of winter and beginning of spring.

14 Potts S.G. et al. 2010. “Declines of managed honey bees and beekeepers in Europe”. Journal of Apicultural Research 49(1): 15-22.

2.2 North America

A significant and constant decline in domestic honey bee colony numbers has been occurring during the past decades in this region18, 19. Losses of honey bee colonies since 2004 has left North America with fewer managed pollinators than at any time in the last 50 years. In this region, honey bees pollinate nearly 95 kinds of fruits such as almonds, avocados, cranberries and apples, as well as crops like soybeans20. In 2000, the value of crops pollinated by bees was estimated at US$ 14.6 billion in the USA alone21........

It appears there are those (with some apparent authority/credible background) who appear to disagree with the notion on this forum that honey bee colonies are not in decline in Britain/Europe?