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Thread: Dwv

  1. #61
    Banned Stromnessbees's Avatar
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    Exclamation CCD linked to introduction of Clothianidin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    You need to read to paper to see how the arrival of varroa promotes the single most virulent strain of DWV at the expense of other strains of DWV which are less harmful to bees.

    CCD cases in the US occured more than ten years after the widespread use of neonicotinoids in the US. No correlation there at all.
    The correlation is actually very good:

    In the 1990s Imidacloprid was introduced, and we didn't hear much about adverse effects.
    But around 2004 Imidacloprid was replaced by Clothianidin, which is three times as toxic to bees as Imidacloprid.
    I assume that this triple toxicity was not taken into account when it was introduced and the bees were hit hard by this new type of neonicotinoids, resulting in massive occurrences of CCD, which is exactly what is to be expected from the way this neurotoxin works.

    When the pesticide companies realized that they had done an 'overkill' they reduced the Cothianidin concentrations on the seed coatings again, so outright CCD is not observed as often anymore, but bee colonies in proximity of treated fields suffer reduced vitality, become susceptible to secondary infections and are likely to have queen problems.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stromnessbees View Post

    When the pesticide companies realized that they had done an 'overkill' they reduced the Cothianidin concentrations on the seed coatings again, so outright CCD is not observed as often anymore,
    Really? Is that another very silly conspiracy theory or have you a reference for that?
    Sorry for asking for evidence again but it is how I sort out the truth from the dross re. the content of internet forums.

    I assume that this triple toxicity was not taken into account
    Why do you assume that. Again you would need to provide just a wee bit of evidence for that claim.
    Was the testing regime suspended for a few years?

    Glad you see your tacit acknowledgement that Imidacloprid has nothing to do with CCD.
    You should have a word with Dr Lu at Harvard as his is still labouring under that misapprehension.

  3. #63
    Banned Stromnessbees's Avatar
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    Question DWV causing CCD ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Really? Is that another very silly conspiracy theory or have you a reference for that?
    Sorry for asking for evidence again but it is how I sort out the truth from the dross re. the content of internet forums.


    Why do you assume that. Again you would need to provide just a wee bit of evidence for that claim.
    Was the testing regime suspended for a few years?

    Glad you see your tacit acknowledgement that Imidacloprid has nothing to do with CCD.
    You should have a word with Dr Lu at Harvard as his is still labouring under that misapprehension.
    Let's stay on the DWV topic:

    I will answer your question as soon as anybody on this forum can explain to me how DWV can cause the symptoms of CCD and why it didn't do so before the introduction of Clothianidin.

  4. #64

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    Jon - you should know better by now than to ask a direct question and expect a direct answer!

  5. #65
    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stromnessbees View Post
    I will answer your question as soon as anybody on this forum can explain to me how DWV can cause the symptoms of CCD ...
    I'm not aware of any study that demonstrates that DWV does cause the symptoms of CCD. Most of us working in the Varroa-rich mainland have plenty of DWV (virus that is, not necessarily deformed wing disease) as will/has been shown in the random apiary survey by the NBU. However CCD - at least as defined and accepted from the USA description - does not occur here.

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