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Thread: Was: For readers of Beesource following Stromnessbees outburst

  1. #21
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    I've got another bag of OSR for tea, there's always a chance I'll succumb to quantities too small to measure!!!!one!11!!

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    Bang on the money Trog, while it is riveting reading, at some point everyone will have to agree that they have different viewpoints, which may or may not have merit, but noone is going to back down. So change the subject already, or muskets at dawn.

    So another topic, top bar hives - ignoring more than a hundred years of progress in beekeeping, or the future ?

  3. #23
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Closing threads is not something to do lightly. I saw another forum close a thread yesterday at the request of one person and I think that it was the wrong thing to do.

    Tonight I'll shift the pesticide discussion out of this thread into a new one in the place down below where such discussion belongs and leave links in place to show where to go to continue if you wish to do so. Nearly did it over breakfast but ran out of time.

    It will not be a conspiracy or a hostile act, just proper management of the forum.

    In general, this often heated, often repetitive stand-off can be a turn-off for some people, but I'll bet you'll all be reading the thread in its new place just to see how outrageous or funny people have been!

  4. #24
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stromnessbees View Post
    Your term 'field realistic' does not apply as this is about feeding the bees.
    Doris, I think you are misunderstanding what field realistic means. Field realistic does not mean that bees have to encounter the pesticide in the field itself. It means a level of pesticide used in a study which corresponds to the level of pesticide which bees are likely to encounter in the field, ie the 1-5 ppb for pollen and nectar with regard to Imidacloprid.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    Closing threads is not something to do lightly. I saw another forum close a thread yesterday at the request of one person and I think that it was the wrong thing to do.

    Tonight I'll shift the pesticide discussion out of this thread into a new one in the place down below where such discussion belongs and leave links in place to show where to go to continue if you wish to do so. Nearly did it over breakfast but ran out of time.

    It will not be a conspiracy or a hostile act, just proper management of the forum.

    In general, this often heated, often repetitive stand-off can be a turn-off for some people, but I'll bet you'll all be reading the thread in its new place just to see how outrageous or funny people have been!
    I think you're better off leaving the thread as it is to be honest, creating yet another split thread out of this just ends up making it even more confusing unless you just want to leave the original post in place?

    I agree with you around closing threads, I seem to recall I was against the idea of time limited windows to edit a post as well, but I've started to believe that it's actually not a bad idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by Johnthefarmer View Post
    It seems shepherds have even more stamina than shills. Must be the euro subsidies. night night.......

  6. #26
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Oh dear! I had thought that it was a good idea (just the Harvard study bit of this discussion, post #29 onwards) but now I'm - ahem - shilly-shallying! But less is more in forum management, that I agree with.

    Cue as many Shill-related puns as you can by the time I finish work today?

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    That almost sounds like a challenge!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    Oh dear! I had thought that it was a good idea (just the Harvard study bit of this discussion, post #29 onwards) but now I'm - ahem - shilly-shallying! But less is more in forum management, that I agree with.

    Cue as many Shill-related puns as you can by the time I finish work today?
    Hi Gavin

    I am happy for you to move all those posts (29 to 67) to another thread, as long as we can continue our discussion on pesticides, as I still have lots of questions.
    At least then we can keep out off-topic posts.

    I'm working on my apology btw, will try to have time for it tonight.

  9. #29
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    Knock any sensible debate out of the thread?

    I asked a perfectly sensible question, granted asked somewhat tongue in cheek and deliberately parodying the style of discussion thrown in my direction up until that point.

    Still no-one will answer the simple question:

    If Neonicotinoids are banned tomorrow, what replaces them?

    Let's forget for a moment whether or not there is any compelling evidence, it's been suggested that since there is some doubt that they're 100% safe to honeybees (why just honeybees?) that they should be banned as a precautionary measure.

    To a point, I don't have a problem with that position. Then I started to look at OSR in particular because there's a lot of it about at the moment to see what the alternatives are. Most of the non-neonicotinoid treatments appear to be pyrethoid based and in most cases, they're excellent at killing bees, other non target insects and fish (and cats with permethrin) but not quite as good at killing whatever they're targeting, whether pollen beetle or aphids as they're quite happily resistant in substantial numbers as we've seen before with other pyrethoid targetted gribblies like, well, varroa for starters.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypermethrin
    http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/l_cyhalogen.pdf
    Primicarb also still seems to be recommended as a treatment. But I can't find a huge amount of information out about it at Th.e moment.

    So this is where I start to wonder what the aim of banning neonicotinoids actually is. We have some, inconclusive, studies that suggest there might be issues in lab studies with Honeybees and now bumblebees (which I think is perhaps more where we should be looking than at honeybees, but I digress) but a lack so far of replicating those Lab studies out in the field. But the obvious replacements in the event of a ban are absolutely known to be lethal to bees, other non targets insects AND fish and other species besides.

    yet whenever I ask what happens when neonicotinoids are banned I get called names and I'm the one derailing sensible discussion?

  10. #30
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    Just when I thought that Doris was going to give up on pesticides here she goes again. It's a pity I used some beet sugar last week to boost a colony that was low on stores, those bees are doomed! A lot beekeepers up here are beginners so Doris's word is gospel.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orkney...rs/message/416

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