Reading a swarm

[Neils]

So is the location where the swarm settles chosen by the queen or is she steered by workers?

[gavin]

That I don't know. At a time like this you wish that you had Tom Seeley on the forum.

[Julian]

So is the location where the swarm settles chosen by the queen or is she steered by workers?

I’m not sure how they choose a place to alight when they first leave the hive but I have heard of beekeepers that constantly cull queens on the same post or branch to attract swarms. I’m not sure if the queen is then drawn to the culling site or if the workers steer the queen to it.

Tom Seeley was involved in some research to confirm how the swarm travels directly to its newly chosen home though. This is recorded in his book Honeybee Democracy.

It reports that scouts that have visited the new home steak directly towards the new location at the top of the swarm. As they are towards the top of the swarm they are highlighted against the sky making them more visible. They fly directly towards the new home at much greater speed than the uninformed members of the swarm. Thus the uninformed members of the swarm are directed by the informed scouts.

[Bumble]

So is the location where the swarm settles chosen by the queen or is she steered by workers?

I watched a video a while ago that showed a swarm leaving, and then returning to a post where the queen was trapped. If the queen can't follow they won't leave her behind.

I can't find the video, despite looking, but I did find this from Bristol Univeristy. It's from 2011, research from Cornell University, the University of Cailfornia-Riverside, the University of Sheffield and the University of Bristol. It's about physical and audible 'stop signals' in swarm waggle dances. http://www.bris.ac.uk/news/2011/8105.html

[gavin]

Mark Winston in The Biology of the Honey Bee.

p142

The queens mandibular gland secretions have three swarm-associated functions: they attract workers to the cluster, stabilize the cluster, and aid in swarm movement to a new nest site. When workers issue from a nest in a swarm, they are attracted to the queen wherever she has alighted, 9ODA appears to be more important for attracting flying workers ...

p185

Suddenly, a torrent of workers pours out of the nest entrance and takes to the air, usually driving the queen out also. Occasionally 'false swarms' issue, when the queen is not driven out or reenters the nest. In that case the clustering workers become nervous, take flight, and return to the colony. If the queen joins the forming cluster, once the cluster has fully formed scouts fly out searching for potential nest sites.

So there is a degree of contradiction there, but it seems that clusters can form without the queen if necessary.

[Jon]

If your queen is clipped and the colony swarms, they usually form a normal swarm cluster hanging somewhere nearby which will then break up and return to the hive within half an hour or so.

[GRIZZLY]

I sat and watched a swarm leave one of my hives yestereday morning at 10.30 a.m.It took about two minutes to issue,flew around for another two minutes and then set off DOWNWIND towards a field surrounded by a whins hedge.The queen obviously got tired and flopped down onto a branch when the swarm formed a cluster around her.I had been following the swarm with my swarm box which I always keep handy - set a board onto the grass adjacent to the swarm,covered it with my swarm cloth ,shook the swarm into the box,upended it on to the cloth ,made an entrance into the bottom of the box ,then left them for ten minutes to let the bees run into the box.I then removed the entrance,covered every thing with the cloth,carried them into my garden where I set up a hive.I dumped them into the top of the brood box,replaced the frames then the roof and left them to it.The whole operation from swarming to hive took 25 minutes.They are still in the hive this morning when I will feed them with a Millar feeder.I think swarms only abscond when the scout bees have had time to establish an alternative site.If you get them early enough before the scouts get to work you won't lose them.Also feed well to get them re-established.As for casts,I go thro the parent colony and reduce them to just one good q.cell.I will sometimes take a split especially if the q in the swarm is old and I need to requeen them later.

[prakel]

I think swarms only abscond when the scout bees have had time to establish an alternative site.If you get them early enough before the scouts get to work you won't lose them.

This is where Drone Rangers excellent advice to move the captured swarm away from it's settling place comes into pay -although I'm not sure about heavily smoking that area once the swarm is removed as I think that that is more likely to cause the now abandoned scouts to seek out the swarm (assuming that you've set it down relatively close) which defeats the idea; better perhaps to not disturb the scouts if at all possible and let 'em either perish (preferably) or return to the parent hive.

[Jon]

I think swarms only abscond when the scout bees have had time to establish an alternative site.

That's the way I see it as well. If you capture a swarm and leave the skep beside the tree or bush it was hanging in the chances are that the scouts will go about business as usual. If The swarm has been hanging for most of a day, or overnight the chances are that the scouts have already decided where to go. A lot of those 'stragglers' you were hoping to mop up will be the returning scouts and those ones are best left behind.
If you have most of the swarm in a skep or a swarm box, best get it away as quickly as possible and rehouse it.

[Neils]

I'm not sure I agree that they only abscond once the scouts have made their mind up. I hived the swarm on Sunday minutes after it had settled and within an hour it was gone again and clustered somewhere else.

I havent discounted that I might have screwed up, but I know the queen was in the hive along with the swarm.