Swarming

[Jon]

It really is an impressive practical document. Whoever put it together absolutely knows what makes bees tick with regard to swarming.
I think the problem most people have is that they don't get their heads around the arithmetic.
When someone tells me they couldn't find the queen and they fear they have lost a swarm I always ask what age was the youngest larva they saw or were eggs present during the inspection. Invariably they never thought to check for that. if your youngest larva is say 2 days old that would usually mean you lost the prime swarm 5 days before. (taking into account caveats about the weather)

[Rosie]

Whoever put it together absolutely knows what makes bees tick with regard to swarming.

Wally Shaw wrote it. He's the Wales Technical officer and has produced a whole library of guides, all partly funded by the Welsh Assembly Government. He is very knowledgeable despite not having a single module to his name. If you read his stuff you can tell that he keeps bees himself! Other writers seem to just regurgitate the myths they inherited from writers who went before them without looking in their own hives.

Rosie

[Calum]

Great thread, really really good, any chance of you making a .pdf of it when you are done with everyone arguing about it...
I'd add

As beekeeper, why should I care if my bees swarm?

if you care about your bees- yes.
They will likely not be recaught and will sooner or later succumb to varroa as they will not have a beekeeper to look after them.. An awful and preventable end.!
When they do, the collapsing colony bees will abscond / be robbed, probably bringing alot of that varroa back to your hives!

[Calum]

And causes of swarming - what we are taught here...
as the number of bees : open brood ratio changes during buildup the work the bees have to do drops of (starting about middle april) enabeling them to think of silly things like swarming, especially if the nectar flow also drops off.
Bees loaded with work will not think about swarming. Removing bees and closed brood (1 frame closed brood = 3 frames bees) to make young colonies is a good way to keep them busy. empty frames for drones will keep them busy and give an indicator on their willingness to swarm (they build it out quick and solely for drones).

Keep the ladies working hard and they'll not tend to get notions about straying away from home as a general rule

[Jon]

And causes of swarming - what we are taught here...
Bees loaded with work will not think about swarming.
Keep the ladies working hard and they'll not tend to get notions about straying away from home as a general rule

I agree and this is perfect weather to get foundation drawn out. If you have frames in the brood box which are all stores, no brood, you can remove them. Replace these with foundation or a frame with a starter strip to draw out and put them near the centre of the brood nest.
This does not work in cold weather or when there is no nectar flow as they just ignore the foundation.

[Jon]

Plus check out all the posts currently on other bee forums about swarms going into the neighbour's chimney and how to get them out. The people who end up paying for scaffolding and pest control could be out over a thousand quid. Non beekeepers do not want this hassle so beekeepers should try and act responsibly. (**clip and check at least every fortnight, preferably every week)

** especially if you keep bees in a built up area. Bees just love chimneys.

[Calum]

only every two weeks?
The first swarm can go as soon as the queen cell is closed.
So 3 days as egg + 5 days larve -checking for queen cups with eggs in them weekly is what we are recommended to do in Germany.

[Jon]

Yea but if you clip you only lose one bee in the worst case scenario. I always check weekly with important queens. I clip all mine now.

[Calum]

you loose the most important one though - the queen !
Right enough clipping will help, the best method is prevention - which I have to admit has not gone very well for me this year.
My heads just not with it, too much else going in my life on to keep my bees well this year

[Adam]

Yea but if you clip you only lose one bee in the worst case scenario. I always check weekly with important queens. I clip all mine now.

I clip too. Sometimes bees will swarm even when they shouldn't (1st attempt at a queencell all year, hardly more than a queencup and they're gone - less than 3 days after an inspection when there was nothing).

Some consider clipping cruel. I don't. What is not good is when a colony gets into a chimney or in a wall cavity and has to be destroyed. I've had a couple of calls like this recently and it pains me to say that the bees cannot be retrieved.

Once a swarm leaves your own property, I believe that it is then not your legal responsibility even if it's a moral one.