Foundationless frames and fishing line

[Neils]

Is there a trick to getting the fishing line tight enough? You can crimp wire, but mono is slippery stuff. Does Rosie give any details in the original article?

It doesn't have to be tight enough to treat the frame as a lyre imo. Finger tight should be enough, it's only there to give a bit of re-inforcement. I wire horizontally 1/3 and 2/3 down and simply wrap the ends around drawing pins and push them flush.

(sorry to break the music vid love in )

[Jon]

A cruel return to on topic posts but that is exactly my method as well.
Ukeleles and Lyres. chacun a son gout. I stick to the more conventional guitar.

[The Drone Ranger]

Blast! I found a trout flapping around in the supers

[fatshark]

No trout here … but I thought I'd give this thread a bump and thank Jon for the original posting … these frames work a treat.

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[busybeephilip]

Personally I like wire. for my foundation I use different sizes of embedded wire, brood for sale or swap I use the same as thornes (o.4mm), for my own brood I use 0.45mm and for super extracting frames I use 0.5mm. The heavier wire helps prevent the foundation sag under the weight of bees if the hive gets hot the only dissadvantage is that heavier wire leaves a track of empty cells on new brood frames where the queen refuses to lay, but later the bees must polish the cells better as this effect eventually disappears.

For my single frame Swedish EWK style nucs like to wire the frame as it gives new comb stability, plus to add some strength the wire is crimped to straighten/tighten it up, its easy for newly drawn white comb to break off if the frame is tilted even just a little in hot weather

[Little_John]

Half the problem with people with strong views is that they think everyone's circumstances are the same as theirs.

A classic comment ! Thanks for that - I'll quote this in future (if I may ?). Same is true of their experiences, too ...

Bloke uses matchsticks under the crownboard during winter - colony dies - it's the fault of excessive heat loss.

Another bloke uses matchsticks under the crownboard - colony not only survives but flourishes - top ventilation in wnter is the way to go ... any other method is nuts.

And so the 'religious' opinions become entrenched ...


For a while I lived on a mountain 'above the clouds' in a cottage on Moel Tryfan (Rhosgadfan, Caernarfon) - the weather there alternated between being extremely wet, or bone dry - but never, ever damp. Currently I live in the Lincolnshire Fens - 6 inches above sea level - where it is unbelievably damp for 6 or 7 months of the year, and where hive management methodology needs to be appropriate.

Think I'll try fishing line (thanks), as sometimes my girls don't always attach to the frame sides.

LJ

[Rosie]

[QUOTE=busybeephilip;24805]Personally I like wire. for my foundation I use different sizes of embedded wire, brood for sale or swap I use the same as thornes (o.4mm), for my own brood I use 0.45mm and for super extracting frames I use 0.5mm. /QUOTE]

I still use fishing line for my drone frames after about 7 years. Each year, however, I increase the thickness of the line to try to prevent the odd one being bitten through. I started with 20lb line as per Dave Cushman's advice and am now up to 40 lb line. So far I haven't noticed bees ignoring the cells with the line in but it might start this year with this thicker stuff. Having said that I still come across the first batch of frames I did with 20lb line after having recycled them at least a couple of times. I just melt out the wax and fit a new starter strip, leaving the old line still in place. After 7 years it has slackened a bit but is still tight enough to be effective.

Yesterday I was speaking to a friend who wires his own langstroth frames. He said he tasted his wire and Thorne's has no taste and thinks that's why the bees don't leave the wired cells empty. He believes that other makes, using different grades of steel, are rejected more by the bees due to the material choice rather than the thickness.

[Jon]

One other advantage of fishing line is that it avoids the problem of oxidation if you fumigate old comb with acetic acid fumes.

[busybeephilip]

[QUOTE=Rosie;24808
He said he tasted his wire and Thorne's has no taste and thinks that's why the bees don't leave the wired cells empty. He believes that other makes, using different grades of steel, are rejected more by the bees due to the material choice rather than the thickness.[/QUOTE]

Thats an interesting observation, I used to use 0.4mm direct from thornes (10kg spool) and still seen the same empty cell effect. I think it may also have something to do with the angle the wire runs at and the depth it is embedded in the wax. I now source my wire in bulk from an alternative supply house. Must have a go at tasting my wire !

[GRIZZLY]

Are you sure the empty cells are not heater cells? see "Buzz about Bees - biology of a superorganism" beautifully written by Jurgen Tautz- worth a read.