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Thread: Orcadian pesticide discussions

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    Banned Stromnessbees's Avatar
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    Default Orcadian pesticide discussions

    This discussion started here and was moved to this area the following morning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Winter bees are not raised on maize pollen. Maize produces pollen late July or early august and there is an abundance of other pollens available at those times.
    Excuse me please, Jon, when it comes to bees I am a good observer.

    I watched my bees and their pollen supply carefully, and there was very little else about where I lived during the flowering period of maize.

    And the bees did very well on it, high protein content isn't everything it seems.

    Doris you are determined to blame pesticides for bee problems at asll costs irrespective of easily available evidence. Bad science. Wooly thinking.
    No, I am determined to find the reason for these colony losses, I promised my Austrian friend who lost all his colonies to look into it.

    Bad science? I haven't quoted any science yet. I am trying to observe and to listen to as many beekeepers as possible and to use common sense.

    If lots of beekeepers tell me it's the pesticides then I will not just dismiss it.
    Last edited by gavin; 01-05-2012 at 09:30 AM.

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    During the pollen producing period of maize, which as a wind pollinated plant is a minor source for the honeybee, we also have pollen from blackberry, himalayan balsam, rosebay willowherb, the tail end of the white clover, ling heather ie all major sources of pollen. There are also many other lesser sources available such as birds foot trefoil and then of course the ivy in the autumn. The idea that maize is a principal source of pollen for bees is incorrect. It might happen in the mid west of the US where there is basically nothing else.

    If lots of beekeepers tell me it's the pesticides then I will not just dismiss it.
    If they provide real evidence rather than anecdotal evidence, fine.

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    Banned Stromnessbees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voytech104 View Post
    Putting whole this pesticide, herbicide discussion aside.
    I remember when I was little eating tomatoes straight from vine full of taste, smell. I remember my mother getting rid of weeds by hand from strawberries and me and my brother picking up them and eating without washing.
    I have no allergies, no stomach upsets etc. I have few grey cells left in my brain too.
    Do You honestly think that all this Wholesale/Monoculture/Pesticide controlled food is better or at least equal to chemistry free grown food? Even if it has the same protein level, the same "nutritional" values - nobody will convince me about taste values. Or maybe I love food too much
    And if I like it better I bet my bees will like it better too.
    I couldn't agree more!



    @ Jon:
    Would be interested in just the tiniest shred of evidence for that statement.
    easy:
    Neonicotinoid

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Neonicotinoids are a class of neuro-active insecticides chemically related to nicotine.

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Evidence of this statement was what I was interested in. I know what neonicotinoids are.

    the bees' ability to detect varroa could be diminished, in which case fewer mites will be removed

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    Default A bee 'under the influence' ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Evidence of this statement was what I was interested in. I know what neonicotinoids are.
    the bees' ability to detect varroa could be diminished, in which case fewer mites will be removed
    Just think of another neurotoxin, the simplest example is alkohol:

    Children who are born to alcoholic mothers have diminished mental capacities, and it's not advisable to give children alcohol during their development, as they will end up disadvantaged in their cognitive functions.


    Neurotoxins affect nerve cells, that means anything to do with sensation, locomotion, processing of information and memory can be disrupted.

    Cleaning cells and catching bugs are complex activities for bees and I dare say that a bee 'under the influence' would do her job less than perfectly.
    Last edited by Stromnessbees; 30-04-2012 at 10:56 PM.

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    Yes, but it was evidence I was interested in rather than personal theories which stretch the imagination to say the least. You are comparing humans to bees. Is that a useful comparison?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Yes, but it was evidence I was interested in rather than personal theories which stretch the imagination to say the least. You are comparing humans to bees. Is that a useful comparison?
    You won't give up until I quote some study, so here you go:
    Simulated exposure events on free-ranging foragers labeled with an RFID tag suggest that homing is impaired by thiamethoxam intoxication.
    To me that means that the bees 'drunk' on pesticides couldn't find their way home anymore.

    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/ea...15039.abstract

    - Bad science?

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Yes, Bad science.
    I read that paper when it was published a month ago and in my opinion it is bad science as it does not look at field realistic levels of the pesticide being studied.
    There is no dispute at all that high levels of neonicotinoids cause disorientation. The issue is whether there are problems at field realistic doses.

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    Exclamation dummer bees in the next generation

    But it proves that the effect of neonics on bees is typical of a neurotoxin, similar to the effect that alcohol has on humans.

    My point is that even if the neonic levels are so low that most of the foragers can still find their way home, the fact that the brood food is contaminated with the nerve poison will lead to dummer bees in the next generation.

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Interesting theory but would need some evidence as opposed to wild conjecture!

    If you drank a pint of petrol it would kill you. Should we ban petrol?

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