After a Shook Swarm

[Bumble]

We are going to shook swarm two colonies, both Langs, into new hives in a couple of weeks, and have been thinking of the best thing to do with the old brood frames which contain a fair amount of stores.

These two colonies came to us late winter, underfed and full of varroa. Apistan will have been in each hive for six weeks this coming weekend, successfully dropping about 18 per day at the worst count, which has now tailed off to one or two in a week.

We can't safely eat any of the honey, so we are planning to freeze the frames for 24 hours and then give them back to the bees, in an eke sandwiched between two crown boards, instead of offering sugar solution.

What can go wrong with this plan?

[gavin]

Lots!

If you are trying to remove residual Varroa, is 24hr enough? Bees can sometimes come back to life after a spell in the freezer. Maybe Varroa too.

Apistan could be largely ineffective and you may have a multitude of Varroa lurking under the cappings. Even a shook swarm doesn't remove them from adults. The shook swarm would remove most Varroa, but is this the best way?

Foulbrood (both kinds) and viruses and chalkbrood will be thoroughly unimpressed by a spell in the freezer.

Bailey comb change, then Apiguard or similar?

[Neils]

Agree with Gavin. If they were "full of varroa" then a drop of 18 a day doesn't sound much to me and might indicate resistant mites.

If you're intending to give them back the frames anyway then a bailey change would be a gentler way to change the combs. If you're shook swarming for general health/hygiene reasons then I wouldn't personally want to put them back into contact with the old frames at all and I'd be inclined to take the opportunity to use oxalic acid after the shook swarm before they have any brood to knock off as many remaining mites as possible.

[Jon]

If you are anywhere in the south of England Apistan has been ineffective for years.
They have found pyrethroid resistant mites in Ireland now as well.
A drop of 18 per day could well be the natural drop rate in which case the total mite infestation is likely to be huge.
If Apistan is working, you get an initial large drop as all the phoretic mites are killed, and then a fairly steady daily drop for a couple of weeks as brood and mites emerge from under cappings. the rule of thumb is that 20% of the mites are on the bees and 80% under cappings. Some people posting on the forums have reported mite drops of several thousand over a couple of weeks.
What about trying a thymol based treatment such as Apiguard? It would work well with the current high temperatures.

[Mellifera Crofter]

...We can't safely eat any of the honey, so we are planning to freeze the frames for 24 hours and then give them back to the bees, in an eke sandwiched between two crown boards, instead of offering sugar solution.

What can go wrong with this plan?

Lots!

If you are trying to remove residual Varroa, is 24hr enough? Bees can sometimes come back to life after a spell in the freezer. Maybe Varroa too.

I thought Bumble meant that he wants to put the honey combs in the freezer - in which case, I wanted to ask, 'Why?', because I have a few honey frames that I want to give back to the bees in the autumn, and meant to ask here how to do that. There shouldn't be Varroa on the honey frames, should there? Or am I completely wrong in thinking that?

Kitta

[gavin]

Might be wrong, but my assumption was that the freezing was to kill remaining Varroa in frames with mixed brood and honey.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Oh yes - a frame of mixed brood and honey. Can he cut out the honey part to return to the colony and destroy the rest of the frame - or might there be Varroa on the honey comb?
Kitta

[Jon]

Varroa mites will be in the brood under cappings as opposed to being on the surface of the comb like a nosema infection for example. I can't imagine the mites would survive 48 hours of deep freezing although as Gavin pointed out they would need more than a superficial freezing. When a colony dies with a big varroa load, the mites die with the bees although sometimes a weak colony can get robbed out by a strong one and the mites hitch hike a ride with the robbing bees.

[GRIZZLY]

Get some APIVAR (not API-LIFE VAR which is thymol based) from the Vet in Dumfries.This will definatele knock down resistant mites and will not affect any honey on the colony.You will get a shock at the number of mites killed.This treatment is a "vetinary only" miticide and is imported to this country under a special licence.I have used it now for a couple of years with great success.

[gavin]

Apivar costs £30 for 5 hives' worth and can be obtained legally under the cascade system (it is approved in another EU country) here:

http://www.bridgevets.com/bees

The active ingredient is Amitraz, a pesticide with different mode of action to the pyrethroids.

Poor Bumble. A surfeit of advice possibly, but it is worth considering that the pyrethroid strips have had their day and you need to look out for high mite populations. Shook swarm isn't such a bad idea given your possible mite problem and your number of miles south of Stonehaven.