Increasing hive numbers

[gavin]

That's some result especially with all that honey too.

Dave Cushman reports a method which ends up with as many nucs in a circle as you think the colony can stand:

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/method2.html

In a good year two frames of bees with a queen cell in a polyhive and with as much feed as it wants will reach a good size for winter. So a double brood colony could give you 12+12 (Hoffmans with no dummy) therefore a dozen splits. The trouble is we haven't had a good year for a while. Maybe this time though?

You could just rely on the queen cells the colony makes rather than all that grafting. But I wouldn't do this with a single stock unless there are plenty of drones in the area.

That is all fantasy by the way. I started the association apiary last year with three full colonies. We now have seven and none are large. If the queen mating had gone well and the summer was a good one maybe we'd have had had 20 by now ... but unfortunately we don't.

[Jon]

It would not work like that with most colonies but that queen was very prolific and I had mated queens spare at the time which means that a nuc is up and running as soon as the queen gets released from the cage.

It should be possible to double colony numbers every year in a controlled manner ie not relying on collecting loads of swarms.
Oops but I forgot, according to the press the bees are dying!

[Neils]

Swarms are a mixed bag. When you've got no choice they can be better than having to shell out £150+ on a Nuc, but it's very much pot luck what you end up with. We had 4 swarms turn up in the apiary last year from sources unknown. One was lovely, two are mad as hell and are one step away from getting a jar of petrol if we can't get some queens sorted out sharpish. unless we get a repeat performance again I won't be going out of my way to get hold of any swarms.

[Troutnabout]

all this info and advice is great, so thanks again to everyone. But I do find it confusing, I'm a practical sort of person so can do stuff without much trouble if i can see it happening or in detailed photos, but visualizing what is needed from the written descriptions is very hard for me, especially on a computer screen.

I have had a look in my dad's old shed and can see 2 nucs, not sure how many frames they hold but I'm 99.9% sure he made them so both could fit side by side on a national brood box. i'll need to dig them out at the weekend and check them. From what i have read I'm thinking of putting the two nucs on the brood box to give the colony space, then making sure there are frames with queen cells, drones etc in the nucs, Putting the old queen in the bottom box under a queen excluder. Then when things settle, taking the nucs to another location for a while. Does this sound sensible? Will it reduce the likelihood of the old queen swarming?

I have a good number of brood boxes, supers, ekes, open mesh floors, roofs, crown boards and queen excluders and feeders. No fancy stuff, pollen traps, cloake boards etc. Easy to knock up in the workshop if needed though.

[Jon]

Troutandabout.
The nucs don't need to sit on the brood box. Nucs are for making up a new colony with its own queen rather than giving more space
If you are reusing old equipment be sure to scorch and sterilize it as foul brood spores can be viable for decades.
If you need to give the bees more space you can add a second brood box or a super but only do this when the current box is full of brood and bees.

The problem with beekeeping sometimes is too many options, some simple and some more complicated.
Your main options boil down to (a) waiting for you colony to make swarm preparations, ie queen cells, which you can use to make up nucs or (b) manipulating the colony so that it makes queen cells at the time of your choosing.
In your situation, with only one colony you need to be careful not to mess things up so you might be best to wait for natural queen cells to appear.
At this point do an artificial swarm and make up a couple of nucs with the brood and adhering bees.

[Troutnabout]

"Simple" sounds good to me Jon. Will leave well alone for another week and do more studying meantime. Option (a) sounds the most natural to me. In that situation, would a shook swarm be the best option to (possibly) prevent the old queen swarming?

[Jon]

Shook swarm is a different thing.
A shook swarm is typically for varroa mite control or sometimes for EFB and the idea is that you separate the bees from the brood combs which are either full of varroa or Larvae with EFB.

In your case to make increase it is an artificial swarm you need to do when you have queen cells.
The most common form of this would be to separate the colony into two parts, the queen with the flying bees (no brood) and the other part has brood and nurse bees plus queen cell(s).

Check out the Dave Cushman website which has simple explanations for all of this.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/index.html

[Troutnabout]

Had a look in the hive today, no progress with the queen cells, so the pressure is off for now. Queen is now laying on her third frame. Could not find her though, not many bees flying today so the hive was pretty full of bees.

I have stuck a super on the brood box, so I should hopefully have time to decide on how best to do an artificial swarm to go with the 2 nucs I hope to create. Hope the weather holds up, watch this space. should i give them some syrup now?

[Jon]

Queen is now laying on her third frame.

The time to add a super is when there is brood on 7 or 8 frames.
This sounds like a fairly small colony which should not have a super on yet.

[nemphlar]

I,ve been feeding syrup since the warm weather last week when they were packing in the pollen, can't think there's much to be gained disturbing them apart from topping up the feeder