The Co-op's new initiative

[Calum]

Hi
what about artificial insemination? Some breeders over here are making really good money inseminating their own queens (raising the queen resale value from 15 to 25 - 30+ pounds).

They are not so dependent on the weather and have a lower 'fail' rate than through natural methods, and far lower risk of contamination from 'alien' stock.
The effort involved is not as much either, and if started early in the season hooks in perfectly with swarm management (removal of bees and brood). From 30 colonies these guys are shipping 60 - 80 nucs and 150 plus queens per year (the 'pure' queen does not need pure nuc bees too).
A good strong cared for starter will supply 25 queens three weeks running easily (personal experience)...

It is a big investment. But some of the apparatus suppliers also supply training. Maybe the CO-OP could sponsor that..

[gavin]

So you could almost make a living from 30 colonies?!

That sounds like a wonderful idea - not making a living, just the thought of producing large numbers of quality queens of known parentage.

I understand that the Coop have not been in touch with the SBA or the Inverness BKA and that enquiries are being made. Of course there is no obligation on anyone to consult the local organisations, but it would have been nice if they had. Still don't know where the bees might come from.

G.

Perhaps I should just add that yesterday I was told that it wasn't quite like this - there is in fact good dialogue with the Inverness association.

[Trog]

Nor do the Co-Op, probably!

[Calum]

So you could almost make a living from 30 colonies?!

That sounds like a wonderful idea - not making a living, just the thought of producing large numbers of quality queens of known parentage.

I understand that the Coop have not been in touch with the SBA or the Inverness BKA and that enquiries are being made. Of course there is no obligation on anyone to consult the local organisations, but it would have been nice if they had. Still don't know where the bees might come from.

G.

Not quite.
After 30 you have to start paying tax on profits (although 30 is flexable that is only counting colonies for honey production).
Apparently 120 is the magic number (but selling honey alone would not do it).
I think the main problem over here would be getting sales volume if you just made your money in queens, alot are doing it.
If someone started flooding the market others would drop their prices to get shot of their stocks.
For anyone interested: http://www.besamungsgeraet.de/__en/ - in english not that I would recommend this model, not having tried any out myself.

[Stromnessbees]

Yes, we do, but after umpteen years of trying to find varroa free bees from elsewhere, I've realised something's going to have to be done at a *national* level. We're trying to set up an association apiary to breed local bees for local beekeepers. The enthusiasm's there; the goodwill's there; the experienced beekeepers are there; the site's there; the funding's available. BUT the few of us with bees can't risk depleting them too far to make up nucs both for the association project and for the beginners desperate for bees. Yet we feel under pressure to do so because one day someone will say, 'I want bees and I'm not prepared to wait any longer', and - perfectly legally - bring in bees from outside. If we're lucky, they'll only have varroa. That's bad enough. If we're unlucky, they'll introduce genes to kept and (generations of) feral bees which will gradually erode their ability to survive an unforgiving environment.

Hi Trog

Very well put!
Here in Orkney we are in exactly the same situation.To find a way forward we invited Roger Patterson from the BBKA: Last Saturday - the Beginners' Day - he gave introductory lectures and warned new beekeepers about importing bees. On Sunday -the advanced day - he explained various ways of making increase and rearing queens. His approach is very hands-on and he has made us much more confident that we will be able to satisfy the tide of new beekeepers one way or another.
One key point he makes is that a good Beginners' day will actually put off those newbies that have been looking at beekeeping with rose-tinted glasses, thereby stopping them form getting bees only to lose them in the first winter.
Another way to reduce demand for bees is by encouraging shared hives: again those who can't handle being stung will be discouraged from getting their own bees rather than getting them, finding out and then abandoning a colony.

We had lots of great advice form Roger, he completely reworked his programme to suit our conditions and needs, he even set up a completely new presentation about making increase. I think you would do well to invite him up for a similar weekend, I imagine that he would help you to work out a future strategy for Mull beekeeping, too.

Best of luck, Doris

[The Drone Ranger]

Most people here have had a different experience of new beekeepers than I have

I find they are the most interested in their bees and usually do a good job because of that.

The worst case of varroa infestation I ever saw in my life was on bees belonging to a beekeeper of 25 years experience

[Jon]

Most people here have had a different experience of new beekeepers than I have

I am with you on that one.

Almost all of the 20 people we have in the queen rearing group are relatively new beekeepers.
The 'experienced' beekeepers are often not willing to try anything new.
Most of them don't/can't do basic swarm control for gawd sakes.

The new folk are really keen to learn but obviously don't have the handling skills and the dexterity to catch queens, mark and clip, put queens in cages etc.
These are the things that they need to be taught in a patient non judgemental manner.

I have spent a lot of this year so far just demonstrating stuff and hopefully by the end of the year a few people will rise up and assume the mantle of queen raiser and be up to speed for next year. My bka does little or no practical stuff so none of the group members have seen things demonstrated before. The more confident ones should start doing the stuff for themselves.

[Neils]

I'm still a new beekeeper so I'm duty bound to agree with you. From my limited experience most new beekeepers are similar to me, they want to learn, want to know more and so on. We tend to be pretty crap at making honey for honey shows but seem to be far more curious when it comes to other aspects of beekeeping.

[Trog]

Hi Doris! That post you quoted goes back a long way! The association apiary's getting its first two nucs on Monday, though it means my better half going over on one ferry, camping overnight with them, then back next day, due to incompatible ferries between two different islands!

Meanwhile Mull's bees have been increasing rapidly and beginners are gradually getting their first nucs. I never really wanted to start breeding bees as it's so time-consuming in the height of the B & B season, and certainly wouldn't have time to do the really complicated stuff, but it's still a great feeling when we see a new queen mated and laying - can almost feel the relief in the colony when all's well!

[lindsay s]

The 'experienced' beekeepers are often not willing to try anything new.
Most of them don't/can't do basic swarm control for gawd sakes.

As well as the above type of experienced beekeepers I have also come across the following beekeepers.
1 The let alone beekeeper (they are convinced their bees will look after themselves and it’s interfering with nature to open up the hives)
2 The I’m too busy with everything else beekeeper (they know what to do but never get around to it, they never have enough equipment ready and will quite happily phone and tell you what they want done with their hives)
3The lazy / can’t be bothered beekeeper (they chuck a couple of supers on the hive in Summer and so what if their bees swarm at least they will get a new queen out of it)
4 The good life beekeeper (they mean well and having a hive on their allotment / small holding completes the set, they forget they are living in Orkney and not the south of England. Apologies to all south of the border.
I’m sure other types of beekeepers could be added to the list and to be quite honest bee owners would be a more appropriate name for them. See what I have to put up with. A good dose of Varroa would sort them all out.