Overwintering Apideas

[Feckless Drone]

I've used a Kieler mini-hive to get a Q mated and going. I wanted to try this out since its bigger than the apidea and by putting another chamber on top I thought you get get a good colony to winter a Q. The top chambers are out of stock so that is not going to happen. The lack of a good crown board is a fault but I used an old piece of X-ray film. Just the right weight and thickness and good for viewing. Now got a lovely Q going, eggs everywhere but I am wondering if i can get her to build up a colony rather than use her to re-Q anything. I needed a Q 4-6 weeks ago but don't now. Any suggestions for how to progress her onto a nuc? Would it require bees from elsewhere or just try with some comb and feeding and the bees with her at present? Interested to hear any experiences. I have seen the apideas in action and working well, and the design does seem superior, I like the excluder from the feeder in particular.

FD

[Jon]

Any suggestions for how to progress her onto a nuc?

Get a frame of sealed brood on the point of hatching and another frame of drawn comb and another of stores and put them in a nuc the rest of which is insulated dummy boards.
Shake all the bees and queen out of your Kieler on to the frame of sealed brood and leave the nuc on the site of the Kieler.
Remove the floor from the kieler and put it over the feed hole of another colony so that its brood is not wasted.
The bees will move up and cover the brood.
After a week, the brood in the nuc will all have hatched and the queen will have laid up the frame with eggs.
Find another frame of sealed brood on the point of hatching and swap it for the frame of eggs/small larvae after shaking off all the bees and queen if she is on it.
Remove the dummy boards and add another frame or two of drawn comb or stores.
You should have a reasonably well populated 5 frame nuc after a couple of weeks as the bees from one frame of sealed brood cover about 3 frames when it hatches.

I did exactly this with an overwintered apidea about a month ago and it is now covering 7 frames.

[fatshark]

I've also used zip ties to hold two Kieler frames inside a national brood frame - its a botch but it can be done. Apidea frames are smaller and I think the Cushman site shows a way of holding them. The Kieler was a double decker so made six 'full' frames. I've swapped these out as the colony built up and they're now filling a hive AND superseded the overwintered queen

The bees build brace comb between the Kieler combs, but this can easily be cut out and the frames reused.

One thing that hasn't worked for me is balancing a nuc on top of the Kieler and hoping the bees move up. I tried this early this season and they stayed resolutely in the Kieler. Perhaps it was too cold?

It still is

[Feckless Drone]

Thanks Jon & Fatshark,

I see the logic of working this up so will give it a go.

FD

[Beregondo]

Hi Jon, do you have the web site or info on the USA's take on over wintering queens ? regards Jean

Jean, I'm not Jon, and I know it's months later, but here are links to a video of Michael Palmer's talk on overwintering nucs. He has been doing it successfully for years in Vermont, near the Canadian border on Lake Champlain:

http://vimeo.com/search?q=palmer+overwintering+nucs

He experimented with putting a super on each half of his nucs last winter and now prefers this. The supers are (2) 4 frame boxes he sets on top of the double nuc box he describes in the video.

Overwintering nucs on strong hives. I don't understand how warm saturated air moving into a colder section gives anything but damp. Is this only in the warmer states?

That would give nothing but damp, and would likely kill the colony.
There is no screen nor communication between the strong hive beneath and the nucs on top. While some heat rises to the nucs, the primary reason for putting them on top of production hives is to get them up out of the snow so the entrances are not blocked and cleansing flights are not hindered.

I live in upstate New York, in Elmira.
I'm intending to experiment with Palmer's ideas on overwintering nucs this winter. Our winters are not as sever as his: where he routinely see temps as low as -29C, here we only get a week or two at about -26.

If the nucs I have presently progress well enough, I should be able to split them in time to prepare for winter and have 10-12 as winter starts. That should be enough for a meaningful sample to assess the method.