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Thread: New research on colony collapse disorder

  1. #91
    Banned Stromnessbees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calum View Post
    Hi Doris,
    the problem is that at this time the bees are not dying in the fields.
    Exactly:

    When this pesticide is applied at high levels, it acts as a nerve poison that paralyses the bee. Those who are not killed outright become disorientated and cannot find their way back to the hive.

    At lower concentrations, so called sublethal doses, the pesticide is carried into the hive with nectar and pollen, where it affects the colony on many levels:

    It affects communication within the colony, suppresses grooming and cleaning behaviour and interferes with the normal development of worker and queen larvae.

    The colony as a whole will become a lot more susceptible to other challenges like varroa and nosema, affected queens will be superceded more often and affected winter bees will die early, leaving behind an empty hive – a classic symptom of CCD.

    For anybody who doubts the delayed effects of this neonicotinoid on the colony I recommend to look at adverts for Premise 75, which is the same chemical aimed at killing termites, a group of insects related to bees which also live in colonies:

    The intent is not to kill the individual termite on contact, but to cause the collapse of the whole colony due to secondary infections as the pesticide is distributed by the workers.
    Please also notice the deliberate long lasting effectiveness in the soil, as these chemicals are very persistent and will affect insect live for a long time wherever they have been applied, or they get moved into ground water and streams, thus contaminating drinking water and killing invertebrates that are at the basis of a whole ecosystem.
    http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/pr...ide-p-316.html


    CCD remians an american problem, it does not suprise me at all that they have an issue.
    Not true:

    I have seen CCD with my own eyes in Austria, where neonic contaminated pollen has caused all my friend's colonies to collapse, nearly all the adult bees had left the colony and only a handfull were left behind with the queen amongst them, the stores were left untouched.

    My mother's fruit trees depend on these bees for pollination, and I told her that if she doesn't want to get ladder and paintbrush for doing the pollination herself in future, she'd better help to get these pesticides banned.


  2. #92
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    Okay, I'll dip my toe in the water with something I wrote offline a few days ago, then decided not to bother because I'm not sure 'debate' is actually possible. Anyhow, here's my take on the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromnessbees View Post
    just watch those bees dying while collecting on sunflowers, dying from 'field relevant levels'
    I haven't watched the videos, but I'm hoping somebody who has watched it (them) will confirm that the bees referred to were tested in a laboratory to ascertain the cause of death.

    A lot of my bees die, far more than one or two, or half a dozen, over the course of a day. Some of my bees die in their hive, their corpses are taken outside where they are eaten by birds etc.. I have found dead bees on flowers in our garden, but it hasn't worried me because "it happens". They have to die somewhere, everything does, and it might as well be in the middle of a nice flower.

    To the best of my knowledge the bees in our hives cannot die from farm-acquired pesticide residues. I've checked aerial images quite carefully before saying this, and checked before selecting sites, so am confident that our apiaries are surrounded in part by gardens, lots and lots of big trees and then open countryside. What little agricultural land there is is probably too far for bees to bother with, and comprises a few cattle, some sheep, some pigs here and there, a bit of hay and perhaps some silage.

    So, why do my bees die?

    Natural age-related losses, apart from disease, predation, or when they're squashed by a careless beekeeper. I have always understood that bees reproduction, and lifestyle, evolved to make sure there are more than enough survivors to manage these losses - same as frogs and the thousands of tadpoles they produce each spring. And, talking of water, that reminds me to ask why evolution didn't ensure that, if bees are so vital to the ecosystem, why can't they swim? Loads drown in our pond. They get eaten too, by fish and water insects. All in all, bees are quite a useful food source for other wildlife.

    Am I concerned about pesticides? Yes, I'm as concerned about them as most rational 21st century people, but I will never be convinced by alarmist reporting that's picked up and shoved down my throat at every opportunity by people who only ever see what they want, and who won't ask, or answer, sensible questions that might challenge their preconceptions.

    My father mixed his own herbicide and pesticide concoctions, using his father's recipes. He happily puffed DDT everywhere. Both men survived to a ripe old age and their children and grandchildren seem to be doing okay too. I am fairly confident that the current crop of -icides are better for us, and the environment, than their predecessors mainly because there is research, lots and lots of it, and not all of it is done by the manufacturers. That doesn't mean that we're at the perfect situation with regard to biocide use, far from it. However stifling, or attempting to control the parameters of, debate cannot be helpful.

    Am I concerned about the way bees are kept in other countries? Yes, a bit, and, for a lot of reasons, I think some beekeepers are their own worst enemies but to the best of my knowledge the Brits are a bit nicer, and a bit more careful with their bees. They can't take them the same sort of distance, don't move them from/to different climatic zones so easily, and our bees don't suffer the stresses and nutrient deficiencies believed to result from foraging on vast, single nutrient, monocultures of the US.

    Do I trust the way scientific research is reported in the mass media? No, because press releases are too often just regurgitated and have a pretty picture to capture attention, or they're a bit like this http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/th.../2010/sep/24/1 which is shamelessly stolen from this thread http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/w...F=&S=&P=386165 on Bee_L

    There was this cartoon too http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20090830.gif

  3. #93
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    That Guardian piece is brilliant. I hadn't seen that before.
    I wonder has Alison Benjamin read it - the well known Guardian journalist and author of 'A World without Fact Checking'

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    I don't think anyone could say it better Bumble. A measured and rational response. And I see Doris is slagging off this forum on the Irish Beekeeping list again. So much for her apology.

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    Am I concerned about the way bees are kept in other countries? Yes, a bit, and, for a lot of reasons, I think some beekeepers are their own worst enemies but to the best of my knowledge the Brits are a bit nicer, and a bit more careful with their bees. They can't take them the same sort of distance, don't move them from/to different climatic zones so easily, and our bees don't suffer the stresses and nutrient deficiencies believed to result from foraging on vast, single nutrient, monocultures of the US.
    In the US AFB is managed - they just treat symptoms with antibiotics till the symptoms subside (but the spores remain). I wonder what levels of antibiotics are in their honey (I hear it is regularly impounded in Germany due to high levels, but is regularly blended these days to reduce levels to saleable quantities).

    The 15 dead colonies from Austria sound exactly like varroa. Doris I explained why this happened due to the conditions last autumn. So if you wish to keep presenting this as evidence please publish the varroa treatmend methods and dates (these have to be recorded in Austria and germany as it is the application of medicine to food producing animals) and any lab testing results confirming what killed the bees. Also when was fed, how much was fed and what was fed for overwintering. Please be a good girl and support your argument with daten,fakten,zahlen so far you have only made assertations.
    Last edited by Calum; 26-05-2012 at 10:02 AM.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    The Phorid fly/zombie fly is back in the news with a US survey planned.

    Not a very scientific article given that it is published in a journal called Scientific American

    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...-neighborhood/

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    I think I observed this Zombie bee watching at the last association talk I gave. I am certain some of the beekeepers were in a trance like state. Some had their eyes shut and one was snoring!

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