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Thread: Drone Congregation Areas

  1. #21
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    Hi Gavin,

    Our situation in the West is not as bad as the East or Perthshire. We don't have commercial operations, only hobby beekeepers. We can also use the geography of the area. We are not by any means perfect as we do have hybrid colonies given to new beekeepers by our local association. We do have the chance to change the colonies back to native black with the co-operation of all the local beekeepers and by surveying our area over a number of years we have built up a picture of where to locate our breeding colonies and where hybrid queens need to be replaced. The long term aim is to breed enough black bees to change the colonies in our local area then protect this area, which is also helped by the geography. (similar to the Gaultee group). Eventually be able to offer black bees to other groups interested in preserving them. We are a number of years from these aims but we think with co-operation and help from other beekeepers we should be able to achieve them.

    Jimbo

  2. #22
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    Hi Trog,

    Hybrid does not always equal angry but if you look at beekeepers in Europe and even some beekeepers in Ireland with pure stocks you will notice they do not wear protective clothing, where we in the UK dress up like spacemen!

    Jimbo

  3. #23
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trog View Post
    Does hybrid always equal angry?
    It depends what kind of hybrid.

    The AMM/Carnica cross has been noted to be particularly bad.
    In Dadant - The Hive and the Honey Bee there is a chapter called 'Races of Bee' which is edited by F Ruttner.
    There is a table showing crosses of different races and it notes that the AMM/Carnica cross is 'very aggressive'

    I suspect that some of the people who think that AMM is an aggressive bee are actually describing AMM/Carnica hybrids as they are as black as AMM.
    Carnica is one of the gentler races of bee and it is the bee used throughout Germany.

    My bees are native type with some hybridization. I inspected 7 colonies earlier this afternoon in cool conditions using just nitrile gloves and a veil for protection and didn't get a sting.
    Mine rarely follow at all although any colony can have an off day.

    Gavin's situation is difficult as he is going to be swamped by Carnica drones. There is a guy a couple of miles from me who keeps Buckfast but I don't think he has too many colonies. I encourage mine to make a lot of drones by using shallows in the brood chamber so it is probably me doing the swamping locally. I still get the odd queen which produces some yellow banded offspring.

    PS no queen cells yet but plenty of drones in some colonies.
    Last edited by Jon; 14-05-2010 at 04:57 PM. Reason: added PS

  4. #24
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Couple of years back I had a colony turn very nasty. It exploded into several boxes in spring and had gone from that nice warm brown colour to darker with greyish bands, not as much as carnica but half way there. I'm pretty sure that it was a hybrid.

    It was exceedingly difficult to work and just threw bees at you when you opened the top. Very intimidating. Usually I do my beekeeping in a jacket and veil, but as my thighs were getting peppered I turned to adding waterproof trousers, sealing up the pockets with Duck tape. Didn't work, they still buried their way through into my pockets and stung me from there.

    Its a sample of one, but it fits with what others say about such hybrids. Some years previously I also had a colony turn nasty on re-queening but that was before I could hazard a guess at the racial identity.

    These colonies are a danger to the beekeeper, especially the relatively inexperienced ones, and also by-standers.

    So, probably not always hybrid = angry, but often it is the case especially with first backcrosses.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Gavin:
    last year I helped a friend with his bees on a regular basis and he had a colony like the one you describe.
    He thought it was normal as he didn't know any better.
    The bees came from an association apiary so heaven help any beginners who had been exposed to that.
    The bees were black although I didn't notice grey banding typical of Carnica.
    I like to work light, but one time after helping him with an inspection I counted dozens of stings embedded in my clothing.
    I have to admit they scared the bejesus out of me and I stated to wear a tunic after that. They also went straight for the ankles.
    Smoke had no effect on them and as soon as the crown board was removed they would all pour out the front and cling to the front of the hive.
    When you lifted out a frame, they would hang off the bottom leaving the brood uncovered.
    The very first time I helped him, after we had closed up I found the queen running around on the stand beside the hive and I had to put her in through the front door.
    I have never seen anything like it before or since.
    They swarmed last summer and the remaining colony died out in the winter. I often wonder who got that swarm.
    They were definitely a danger to the public and I was hoping to requeen them for him but they swarmed first.

    This colony was less than 3 miles from mine so I was worried about the influence the drones could have but none of my colonies have turned aggressive touch wood.

  6. #26
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    We ought to have an organised attempt to do morphometry on any angry colony we hear about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Hi Trog,

    Hybrid does not always equal angry but if you look at beekeepers in Europe and even some beekeepers in Ireland with pure stocks you will notice they do not wear protective clothing, where we in the UK dress up like spacemen!

    Jimbo
    not all,dress like that.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by linchpin View Post
    not all,dress like that.
    That reminds me, I know a man with Buckfast x native crosses now veering back more to native types and they seem as mild as anything. He even looks into his bees with nae veil at times!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    Couple of years back I had a colony turn very nasty.
    Talking to myself now.

    Just wanted to reinforce the point that this possible Amm x carnica cross was darker, and in fact blackish, in comparison to the browner native types.

    Using the term black bee or even the dark bee implies that the darker they are the better. In many cases these could be the worst ones to keep if you are trying to select native stocks. Folk using colour as a selection criterion could go very badly wrong.

  10. #30
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    Gavin, do you have any pictures to show the variations in colour?

    Or could anybody else post such pictures here - including some of drones (I nearly hit the topic!) and queens - please?

    Doris

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