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Thread: I was revisiting the BBKA Course in a Case....

  1. #11
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    " It doesn't. In fact the later slide specifically says first Q to emerge will kill the other(s)."

    Oh Dear. I that case you could get both halves swarming! The worst of all worlds. Just what a beginner wants after having just introduced bees to his urban garden.

    Rosie
    Last edited by Rosie; 09-12-2011 at 01:45 PM. Reason: original quotation added because Jon got in before me!

  2. #12
    Senior Member chris's Avatar
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    I don't know if this still exists, but it used to be on the BBKA website.

    © BBKA 2006 (3rd edition),
    Swarm control for the beginner

    11. Select a queen cell which is well placed on the face of the comb, is a good
    size and has dimples on the surface. Mark the position of the cell by placing a
    drawing pin in the top bar, vertically above the cell.
    12. Carefully brush all the bees off this comb into the brood box, and destroy other
    queen cells on the frame.
    Treat this frame gently. Do not jar or shake it or you
    may damage your chosen future queen.
    13. Shake or brush the bees off all the other brood combs into the brood box and
    break down all the queen cells.
    Check in the corners and break down all
    possible queen cells.
    Better safe than sorry.
    14. Re-assemble the hive with the excluder and supers.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    And the other thing to remember, whether you leave one or two open cells, is that you have to check 5 days later as they will probably have made more emergency cells from suitable aged larvae and these need to be removed. Most people don't seem to do this and half the books fail to point it out. If you leave one open cell and don't check 5 days later, this one can hatch and swarm leaving you with a scrub queen made from an emergency cell. Bees are rarely happy with just one queen cell and invariably try and make more.

  4. #14
    Senior Member chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    That the first queen out kills the other or tears down the cell is one of the more prevalent myths in beekeeping. I have had several fairly inexperienced beekeepers argue this point with me due to reading it somewhere or other. Needless to say they lose swarms left right and centre.
    Even if they were right,a little experience and they'd know not to argue with you

    I found out about the point you're making when, after some bad weather which delayed the old queen leaving, the bees didn't tear down any Q cells as they can do. Afterwards the old queen left, so did the virgin. And there was another virgin left in the hive.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with either the 5 minute or the ten minute argument. Did someone mention morphometry?

    When I started out I made the basic mistake and I had 6 cast swarms on successive days. (hangs head in shame)

    I think I collected most of them but the last one was about the size of a grapefruit.


  6. #16
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    Right then, here's the other two slides specifically dealing with artificial swarming.




    The accompanying notes from the slides (same for all three) doesn't seem to match the method on the slides, but I'll include it for completeness:

    Quote Originally Posted by BBKA

    On the original stand put an empty brood box, we will call B, and floor. Transfer the following frames from brood box A to brood box B: 2 frames of unsealed brood and eggs, outside of these 2 frames of sealed and emerging brood placed outside the first frames and outside these 2 good frames of stored honey/pollen. This is where the importance of the early spring preparation shows. Close up the frames in A and B and fill the boxes with drawn comb or foundation. (I also use 2,3 & 4 frame dummies) It is important to fill up the gap or wild comb will be built. Release the queen in box A. This is not the same as the Artificial Swarm Pagden Method, rather the opposite because no queen cells are built yet so we have to have a strong queenless stock on the original stand with the flying bees for good queen cells to be started.
    Last edited by Neils; 10-12-2011 at 08:40 PM.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    Its one queen cell for me too.
    Explaining the A/S in diagrams makes it appear much harder than it actually is. Once you've got it in your head it's not a problem. The best thing for a beginner is to practice it with spare kit when no-one is looking.


    I have to admit that I prefer the argument sketch to the one on using a ratchet strap.
    Last edited by Adam; 15-12-2011 at 09:19 PM.

  8. #18
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    The only time I've left more than one queen cell was to try out a suggestion to manually release the queens the day before they were due to emerge. That works, but carries obvious risks if you can't open the hive up to release the queen(s) for any reason that you'll then end up losing a swarm anyway.

  9. #19
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    Pretty much sure that the Basic Exam/Module 1/2 "bible"(Hooper) states keep ALL open QCs in the shifted (brood) part of an AS. So this could be seen as an improvement!

  10. #20
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    Really?

    I know our local bee whisperer isn't a great fan of Hooper. But, unlike most other books, he's never had a good old rant about it giving out rotten advice. He disagrees with the options given about drone laying workers and the overall writing style of the book but that's about it. Typically I can't find my copy to double check what's written.

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