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Thread: Pollen Feeding

  1. #11
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    Excellent advice Gavin!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rourkie View Post
    hi popz pollen will not stimulate your bees as feeding syrup in the spring will if you want to feed pollen substitute now thats fine but make sure they have enough stores. At the moment you have one colony as soon as you have two or more you will want to be able to swap frames of bees ,brood, or stores between colonies. you do this for a lot of different feasons, frames of stores brood and foundation are used to make up nucs if you mix deep frames and shallow in the same box it causes problems . if you use double brood all you brood rearing is done on a standard size frame, build up on 2bb and you can split the top box from the bottom you have 2 colonies one queen right one queen less the queenless hive can use its brood to make queen cells. .There are many more reasons why you will want a standard size brood frame,hope this helps.Regards Rourkie
    rourkie, that all makes a great deal of sense, thank you. Will probably come back to you as the season progresses

    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    Hi Popz
    Remember the drones. If you end up splitting your only colony then the virgin(s) will need a good supply of drones from several other colonies to get properly fertilised. If you are more than a mile or so away from other apiaries (with the right kind of drone!) you might think of putting your splits into nuc boxes and taking them closer to a supply of drones. And, of course, if you are successful in pushing your colony ahead of all the others in the area then they may not have mature drones when your queens are flying. Some will though - colonies in warm sunny spots in flowery Tobermory, for example, are likely to be far ahead of those on a wind-swept hillside.
    Gavin
    Gavin, a lovely afternoon here and a few of the ladies are staggering around their wee hoose.
    Regarding the drones, I thought Beowulf stated that they could congregate at quite large distances. Unfortunately I have lent his book out and must get it back, it is such a good read. Whatever ,it is a valid point that I had not considered. Is this why some folk concentrate on drone rearing early in the season?

    Again thanks for your input. I will be back!!!
    POPZ

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    Hi Popz

    Yes, drones will fly a long way, up to 40 miles I believe. Suddenly Mull doesn't seem so isolated from mainland Varroa! However if you want your queens well mated it is wise to consider having drones sources nearby, especially if the weather is unpredictable. Yes, some people put effort into early drone raising, particularly if they are hoping to raise early queens. In this case they would normally use several colonies for raising drones, as the genetic diversity you get from one colony is too small to sustain a population. On the other had you get more diversity in the queens from one colony, as they come from eggs fertilised with the semen from several drones.

    all the best

    Gavin

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    Senior Member POPZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    Hi Popz Yes, some people put effort into early drone raising, particularly if they are hoping to raise early queens. In this case they would normally use several colonies for raising drones, as the genetic diversity you get from one colony is too small to sustain a population. On the other hand you get more diversity in the queens from one colony, as they come from eggs fertilised with the semen from several drones.
    all the best - Gavin
    Gavin - the latter bit above appears to be a contradiction of the former bit - if you follow me? I must be misunderstanding something here ??
    POPZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    Yes, drones will fly a long way, up to 40 miles I believe. Suddenly Mull doesn't seem so isolated from mainland Varroa!
    I wouldn't want anyone reading this to think it's OK to bring bees into Mull because mainland drones will bring in Varroa anyway. Fortunately, I don't think Morvern, Lorn and Ardnamurchan are so heavily populated with colonies, infested or otherwise, that this is likely ... but we still check once a year just in case.

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    Quite agree Trog. The flight across the water might put them off to some extent and so Mull is not *that* connected to the mainland, bee-wise. But it might be worth trying to keep in touch with beekeepers across the narrower reaches to see what they are up to.

    Popz, there is one gene which is really important for bees as it determines gender! If an egg has two versions the same (or more usually just one version) then it is male (males are usually haploid from unfertilised eggs). Only if diploid and with two different versions will it be female (worker or queen).

    So a queen carries two versions in her own cells (let's say a and b) and maybe another 10 in the sperm in her spermatheca (c, d, e, f, g, h, i .... ).

    She will make a mix of fertilised eggs (e.g. ad, bi, ac, af, bg, bh ..... ) but the only drones she can make are either a or b.

    So on the male side diversity quickly narrows. You need several queens to keep the diversity going, and drones from these several queens.

    Questions?!

    Gavin

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    Senior Member POPZ's Avatar
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    Gavin,
    The deeper it gets, the more murky it becomes! But your explanation is good and clear - thanks. I guess that this sort of thing is what makes 'lady' and 'gentlemen' keeping such a fascinating subject.

    I really must get my copy of Beowulfs book back because I remember reading much about this and very interesting it is. Have we gone off topic here?? tut tut.
    POPZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    Hi Popz

    Without bees occupying a second brood box you'll not have the same ability to split the colony to make increase, but if you get them working two brood boxes fully then you might be able to split one of those boxes into three nuclei to help solve that bee shortage on Mull. If you build them up then you might end up with two boxes full of bees and congested - that is when they are likely to make queen cells. Less prolific bees or a poorer environment for them might mean that they struggle to fill the two boxes and so don't go reproductive as that congestion is a trigger for queen raising. Gavin
    Not sure here what you mean when you say 'Less prolific bees or a poorer environment for them might mean that they struggle to fill the two boxes and so don't go reproductive as that congestion is a trigger for queen raising.' I understand that I may be in a poorer environment but I don't understand why that should be a problem for double brood. Especially as I am now feeding in order to help the build up.
    POPZ

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    Hi Popz

    You can often predict when a colony is going to make swarm preparations, and use this to manipulate things to encourage that natural swarming impulse.

    What makes a colony raise queen cells?

    1. A deficit of queen substance. Queen is getting old, or has died, or the brood has been moved even within a stack of boxes to be distant from the queen, or even the cessation of a flow means that there are lots of workers at home (see also 2).

    2. The colony can see that it is almost out of space.

    Number 2 is fairly potent, so that giving them plenty of space in advance of their needs can delay or prevent swarming preparations.

    So that second brood box can be tantamount to giving them plenty of space. Some bees may struggle to fill two brood boxes (even if fed?) and so that part of the trigger to make queen cells might be weaker.

    On my decent colonies which are strong early in the spring I try to give a second brood box, then one or perhaps two supers while the main spring flow (oilseed rape) is still strong and they can fill them. Leaving them short of space towards the end of the flow encourages congestion and helps trigger queen cell formation.

    If they don't make queen cells at that stage you can encourage them to do so by separating queen from young brood as I've described before.

    Was that any better? Keep 'em short of space and they'll try to swarm?!

    all the best

    Gavin

  10. #20
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    Gavin. Yes that all makes sense and gets to the point I don't really understand. If it is possible, as you say, to enforce the making of queen cells by removing the queen from the brood, then what is the problem with double brood that so many folk seem to have? It seems to me that this is a win win situation and so why is double brood not a standard manipulation for increase? To me it seems such a sensible way to go, particularly as it means splits are so easy.

    Maybe I have yet again missed something here?

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