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Thread: Pollen Feeding

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    Senior Member POPZ's Avatar
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    Question Pollen Feeding

    Having only one colony, and having built it up from last seasons nuc, I am looking to divide and increase my stock this coming season. Having hefted the hive, there appears to be plenty of food there still, and capping pieces falling through the OMF in good quantity.

    So in order to stimulate brood production I made up some pollen substitute this afternoon with a view to having a peek under the crown board during the week and putting the pollen on the frames. Choosing this time because our worthy weather forecasters are talking about 'warmer' weather mid-week.

    I realise this may entail having to feed later on to match the increased demand as brood hatches.

    Any thoughts on pollen substitute feeding at this time, or indeed doing it at all???

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Ah .. the perpetual fiddling of the beginner! But OK, pump them up early if you want increase - but watch out for getting them too far out of synchrony with your seasons. Pollen *substitute* with no pollen, right? Or irradiated-to-death pollen? Otherwise I could see where the first case of Nosema ceranae in the hebrides could turn up (not that I know pollen to be a vector for such disease, but it seems likely - along with foulbrood).

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    Hi popz I would reluctant to stimulate this early, I would wait until atleast mid march preferably to begining of april to stimulate and i would use syrup .Spring is later this year and if you stimulate to early the brood nest may be to large for the bees to keep warm if we get another cold snap. you will have plenty of time to build your colony up and make splits. regards Rourkie

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    Senior Member POPZ's Avatar
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    Scrivens Gavin, you really do know how to scare of a beginner! - Nosema ceranae, out of sync with season, irradiated pollen?? It sounds like a really bad idea!

    The pollen substitute does contain honey from my neighbour which means it should be free of any nasties, and that is where my nuc came from in the first instance. Otherwise only soya bean flour and brewers yeast. I do understand about getting out of sync, so does that mean waiting till the ladies are really flying by which time they will be getting fresh pollen and will have no need for a substitute? This could be a long wait and leading up to a slow season start?

    What is the best way to optomise colony build up, and without any perpetual fiddling? Actually I have not lifted the roof since November, just talked to them on a daily basis. This, of course, may well have put the little darlings off

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Sorry! Your fiddling has been less than mine ....

    Non-pollen protein sources and trusted Mull honey - should be fine health-wise. Rourkie is right to urge caution on encouraging too early a build-up, but what you are wishing to do is to get them using their honey stores early to fill more frames with bees so that once the local forage sources do come in you already have a strong colony. March might be a time to try that. Eggs laid in early March will give bees that fly in mid to late April - will you have forage for them then? Mid March would mean flying bees at the end of April and early May, possibly better.

    G.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rourkie View Post
    Hi popz I would reluctant to stimulate this early, I would wait until atleast mid march preferably to begining of april to stimulate and i would use syrup .Spring is later this year and if you stimulate to early the brood nest may be to large for the bees to keep warm if we get another cold snap. you will have plenty of time to build your colony up and make splits. regards Rourkie
    Rourkie - sorry I missed out your reply somehow. I take your point, but i was under the impression that one of the main causes of death at this time was shortage of pollen stores. I guess I wanted to make sure they were getting enough protein etc, that they may need.

    [QUOTE=Gavin] what you are wishing to do is to get them using their honey stores early to fill more frames with bees so that once the local forage sources do come in you already have a strong colony.[QUOTE]

    Gavin, I am not sure what you mean by this? How do we get them to use up honey stores and what relationship has this with pollen? Is it not better to get the queen down into the brood box ( I am brood and a half) then add a super as soon as any flow starts? Am I missing something here and talking baloney?

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    hi Popz In my experiance a shortage of pollen will not lead to the death of a colony, but a shortage of stores will(honey ,syrup).Bees will not take syrup if it is to cold better to feed candy.You wish to stimulate spring build up to enable you to increase colonies, Feed syrup as a stimulant when spring has sprung and they will build up quickly. You can still feed your protien it will not do any harm.feeding syrup as soon as is it safe stimulates the bees they think they have a flow on and go for it. You are using a brood and a half if possible switch to double brood its so much easir to make increase if your bees are all on deep frames, and generaly to manage colonies, Regards rourkie

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    Quote Originally Posted by rourkie View Post
    hi Popz In my experiance a shortage of pollen will not lead to the death of a colony, but a shortage of stores will(honey ,syrup).Bees will not take syrup if it is to cold better to feed candy.You wish to stimulate spring build up to enable you to increase colonies, Feed syrup as a stimulant when spring has sprung and they will build up quickly. You can still feed your protien it will not do any harm.feeding syrup as soon as is it safe stimulates the bees they think they have a flow on and go for it. You are using a brood and a half if possible switch to double brood its so much easir to make increase if your bees are all on deep frames, and generaly to manage colonies, Regards rourkie
    Thanks for all that Rourkie. So pollen substitute does not stimulate them, and so safe to feed now. Is that correct?
    Why is a double brood easier to make increase and to manage colonies generally? Hope you don't mind all these questions, but it is all very interesting and important to get things as right as possible before the season starts.
    POPZ

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    hi popz pollen will not stimulate your bees as feeding syrup in the spring will if you want to feed pollen substitute now thats fine but make sure they have enough stores. At the moment you have one colony as soon as you have two or more you will want to be able to swap frames of bees ,brood, or stores between colonies. you do this for a lot of different feasons, frames of stores brood and foundation are used to make up nucs if you mix deep frames and shallow in the same box it causes problems . if you use double brood all you brood rearing is done on a standard size frame, build up on 2bb and you can split the top box from the bottom you have 2 colonies one queen right one queen less the queenless hive can use its brood to make queen cells. .There are many more reasons why you will want a standard size brood frame,hope this helps.Regards Rourkie

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    Hi Popz

    Without bees occupying a second brood box you'll not have the same ability to split the colony to make increase, but if you get them working two brood boxes fully then you might be able to split one of those boxes into three nuclei to help solve that bee shortage on Mull. If you build them up then you might end up with two boxes full of bees and congested - that is when they are likely to make queen cells. Less prolific bees or a poorer environment for them might mean that they struggle to fill the two boxes and so don't go reproductive as that congestion is a trigger for queen raising.

    Why not try your protein patties and - when it warms up - light syrup too? If your mentor has a look you'll be able to judge together whether or not your strategy worked. Normally there would be no need for you to push the bees like this, but you are trying to do something a little unusual. People who rely on an oilseed rape harvest sometimes do this too. It does mean that you will need to keep feeding once you start (until the flows appear in your area) and that you will miss the chance to see how the bees tailor their behaviour to their surroundings.

    Remember the drones. If you end up splitting your only colony then the virgin(s) will need a good supply of drones from several other colonies to get properly fertilised. If you are more than a mile or so away from other apiaries (with the right kind of drone!) you might think of putting your splits into nuc boxes and taking them closer to a supply of drones. And, of course, if you are successful in pushing your colony ahead of all the others in the area then they may not have mature drones when your queens are flying. Some will though - colonies in warm sunny spots in flowery Tobermory, for example, are likely to be far ahead of those on a wind-swept hillside.

    hope that helps

    Gavin

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