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Thread: Help for a newbie

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    Senior Member Bridget's Avatar
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    Default Help for a newbie

    Just been in to give our late July five frame nucleus some more feed and a thorough check which we haven't done for a couple of weeks, though we added Apistan strips 4 days ago. Today our quiet non agressive bees had become pretty cross. Found the Queen, saw white capped honey and uncapped, capped brood and brood and some pollen but were not able to find any eggs, mainly due to volume of bees on the frames. They seemed so furious we didn't like to push them about too much. Some questions - would the Apistan made them cross? Is it normal for them to make a hole through one of the frames/foundation? I am uploading some photos, one of the Queen and another of the amount of bees on one of the frames. Would you say all looks normal? Any comments gratefully receivedAttachment 820Attachment 821Attachment 822

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    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    I've not used Apistan, but Apiguard certainly makes them tetchy and often puts the queen off laying. I went through a hive yesterday that has had five weeks of Apiguard and now has almost no brood, though it's still bursting with bees. You can always shake the bees off the frames to get a better view, though mind the Q. Finally, holes are not unusual, nor is nibbling the foundation away from the bottom/edges of the frame ... I think they do this deliberately to make some escape routes to ensure locating the Q is more difficult!

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    I have never noticed a change of temper with either Apiguard or Apistan, although I agree with fatshark that with Apiguard, the queen often stops laying and the bees can even decide to remove pupae in some colonies.
    I have treated about 20 colonies with Apiguard this year and it has not provoked any noticeable change in temper. I opened several colonies a couple of weeks ago to demonstrate to visitors how calm they were.
    I used to use Apistan and I never noticed any change in temper with it.
    A colony which seems to be ok as a smallish nuc can reveal its true colours re aggression when it triples or quadruples in numbers.
    Other factors such as wasps or lack of nectar income can affect the temper of a colony as well.

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    Senior Member Bridget's Avatar
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    Thanks for that folks. We did try shaking them off but they just got angrier! No wasps around and heather not far away.
    The aggressive behaviour is just in the last few days - maybe they were fed up with the poor weather. However, although this nuc seems to have grown a lot and is now very busy, they don't seem great at going out and bringing back the goods. Considering how many there are inside there are never that many flying back and forward or crowding at the entrance. Could they have been relying too much on the sugar syrup and cross today because they had run out. sorry that seems a dumb comment but its all new. I don't see why our very docile nuc, and they were chosen as such because we are beginners, should suddenly turn. Still, we are not put off, we just didn't want to upset them any more. I think we will leave them for a bit til they need more syrup.

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    We avoid shaking our bees off the frames unless we really must see a whole frame unhindered (eg for a disease check). They really don't like it! To move them off just a bit in the middle to check for eggs, try blowing gently. Ours don't seem to mind that. Your bees may be upset because wasps or other bees have been trying to get in, attracted by syrup. This may have been happening when you weren't looking. Or there's a thunderstorm approaching ...
    We find ours are only crowding at the entrance if they're rushing home because there's a big black cloud in the offing, otherwise there's a steady coming and going during the day. And, yes, they like rearranging foundation and chewing holes in odd places!

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    Senior Member Bridget's Avatar
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    Thanks Trog I will try the blowing thing next time.

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    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Blowing on them gently certainly moves the bees, but can upset them as well. Mine definitely don't like it. An alternative is to gently place the back of your hand onto the seething mass of workers ... they'll clear enough to see any eggs etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatshark View Post
    Blowing on them gently certainly moves the bees, but can upset them as well. Mine definitely don't like it. An alternative is to gently place the back of your hand onto the seething mass of workers ... they'll clear enough to see any eggs etc.
    --
    fatshark
    Hi
    certainly if you have what bees would regard as bad breath.
    I always take the first bit of propolis I see and chew on it. After it has warmed up I have never had an issue with bees minding being blown about, and have far far fewer stings to the face (I like to go commando on em).
    ttfn
    Calum

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    I move the bees from the centre of the frame with my fingers when I need to check for eggs.

    Re. the aggression, in your photo the bees are a real mixture from very yellow to all black which shows that your queen almost certainly mated with different coloured drones.
    Hybrid colonies are often quite aggressive in my experience although you can be lucky and get a quiet one.
    Were they sold as local mongrels?
    Last edited by Jon; 20-09-2011 at 07:33 PM.

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    I get the impression that blowing on bees as a practice is somewhat falling out of favour, at least around these parts. Not entirely sure why as it's never seemed to particularly bother mine. I just gently brush the backs of the bees I want to move and they happily oblige.

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