Insulate or Not ?

[marion.orca]

Being a new beekeeper, [and starting to feel the cold winds ] I have started thinking about the winter months that are looming ahead of us. So, my big question is " Do I insulate my hive ? " I have read some opinions that are positively against it - it will cause too much dampness leading to the build up of mould and disease - the bees have survived millions of years without us molly - coddling them, but I can't help but think of the cold temperatures these past few winters. I know there are products on the market which would suggest that if they are out there, they are neccessary. Do any of you insulate ? What do you use etc. etc.etc. Or are they just better left to their own ways providing plenty of food is available for them ? I'd be interested to hear both positive and negative thoughts on this. I would hate to lose them just because I have neglected to take the correct action.

[Calum]

Dont insulate... It keeps them longer in brood which increases varroa infestation more than anything else.
If they are a good strong colony sitting on plenty of stores that have been treated for varroa they'll be fine.

If they are no a strong colony they will use up their stores faster, and there is a risk of them starving through getting isolated on emptied frames... So I'd seriously consider it.. But we are talking about Scotland. So it is not that cold (damp is another issue but I'm hoping your bees are in a good dry airy spot where they get the sun). Mine tough it out on the edge of a wood through the -25°C days and nights here in S Bavaria.
I use a couple of newspapers laid flat on top of the frames as something to soak up the condensation I suppose that gives some insulation as well.
I also have had good experiences overwintering in polystyrene boxes, but these all have open floors to improve air circulation so they were never damp.

IMHO.

[Adam]

Sorry Marion but I am going to give a completely different answert to Calum as I do insulate - with an open mesh floor. Having written that, I am from the Southern tip of Scotland that you didn't know existed, so the weather is different.
This is what I do and the reasons for it;
http://www.norfolkbee.co.uk/beekeepe...er-preparation.

This is where Harry Hill would shout "FIGHT!"

[marion.orca]

Don't apologise please ! I am looking for lots of different opinions and yours is very welcome. I haven't yet checked out the thread, but will do after this. I have heard of the southern tip of Scotland [ only briefly mind you ] but what I didn't know was that Norfolk, East Anglia was there. Just shows you learn something new every day. I do realise that climates differ from place to place and I imagine that Southern Scotland is slightly milder than the stormy west coast, though we tend to stay a tad warmer than inland being coastal. I recently had to unite 2 broods, which I did with newspaper, lavender and sugar syrup. so imagine that they would just chew through that as Callum had suggested. What a start for a beginner ! Still they were successful and I now have one big happy brood in a National. So plenty of ventilation with an open mesh floor. I know there were several hive losses last winter due to the cold and bitter temperatures, so I want to avoid that at all costs. I'll check out your link now and thanks for replying - Callum too.

[Jon]

I insulate at the top with 50mm of polystyrene.
Can't do any harm if you prevent excessive heat loss through the roof.
Some of mine are on mesh floors and others are on solid floors.
The big danger is damp rather than cold.

[Neils]

I've not insulated over the past two years but I'm going to try and winter some nucs so those I might well do.

[marion.orca]

What would you use to insulate ? Would you buy something that is available on the market or improvise with something else ? And would you insulate the top only or does anyone wrap the whole hive ? I'm also going to have to move the hive from its current location - it's just a wee bit too remote for the winter months. It's been an uphill struggle with the bees since I started, but I finally got permission from the Laird, who is now in full favour of it. Surprisingly I had had huge resistance from a crofter, grazing rights and all that. Today I had the good news that I had hoped for from a more understanding crofter who recognises the benefits and need for bees and in fact he can't wait to see the bees back on the croft again. [ his Father used to keep bees a long time ago] Would I wait until the hive has closed down for the winter months, or move them as soon as, whilst they are still foraging ? [ the new location will be 3.1 miles from the current location]

[Rosie]

When I was a beginners an old hand told me to overwinter with the crown board removed, the bottom as open as possible and no insulation. His philosophy was to keep the environment cold so the bees would not raise so much brood and would be less likely to be tied to the brood to cause isolation starvation. He also wanted to keep loads of fresh, cold air in the hive to prevent dampness. I think everyone agrees that dampness is dangerous but cold is harmless. He was a native bee enthusiast, as am I, and I think that is significant. If your bees belong to a warm climate you might have to insulate and put up with the winter laying, warm hives, varroa problems and high winter consumption.

My own method is to use wooden hives, leave mesh floors open and insulate the top of the crown board. This is to allow the underside of the crown board to remain warm to prevent condensation forming above the cluster. If the walls are cold and the crown board warm the condensation appears on the walls where it will do more good than harm.

I think the best way to avoid winter losses is to keep well-adapted bees, control varroa in August, provide sufficient stores and keep the hive airy and cool. It also helps to keep young queens but I always keep my queens until I lose them through bad swarm control or the colony supersedes them. I only ever destroy aggressive or exotic ones. My winter losses are typically around 10% and those are usually expected losses because the colony had struggled for some reason during the summer.

The last 2 winters have been the coldest I have experienced and yet my losses were no different to normal. In fact my highest and most exposed bees (at 1000ft above sea level on a windy mountainside) suffered no losses at all.

Rosie

[madasafish]

The only reason that polyhives do better than woodhives is because of their superior insulation...unless it's because bees prefer the material...

So the more insulation the better...

[Jon]

The only reason that polyhives do better than woodhives ..

Do they really do better? better in what sense? According to whom?

I have little experience with poly hives other than apideas and I can certainly see the value in the insulation when you are working with just a cupful of bees.
I keep native type bees in Thorne seconds Red Cedar nationals which cost about £18 each and mine seem to do well in those.

I haven't done a side by side trial comparing Poly with Red Cedar so I couldn't say whether one is better than the other.
If nothing else, I prefer wood as it is a more environmentally friendly product than polystyrene although I do use an 18" square piece of polystyrene for insulation above the crown board same as Rosie.