View Poll Results: Is SBA membership keeping pace with the growth in beekeeping

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  • yes

    2 28.57%
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    5 71.43%
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Thread: Should the SBA membership be growing faster??

  1. #11
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Just a bit of background from someone who sat on the Executive for two years but is off it now. There were voices raised (not many, but they were influential at the time) for a major hike in subscriptions. Other professional organisations have high subscriptions so we should have too was the argument, without any great thought as to what the money should be spent on. If Neonach's view is common (and I suspect that it is) then note should be taken of that.

    Al, the webmaster, has been soldiering on bravely whilst making clear his intention to hand on the role to someone else. Now this and other positions are being advertised. Significant improvement in the web presence will only follow after enthusiastic new folk with specialist skills come on board. A word of warning here - sometimes organisations try too hard to modernise without properly understanding what they are doing. Look at the terrible mess the BBKA made of integrating their new web site with the old forum.

    One delightful feature of this forum has been the interest it has generated in those far-flung places that the SBA was always struggling to reach. That reaching out to the membership right across the country is something that needs to be strengthened. The convention moves around the country but I have raised the possibility of there being other regional meetings, perhaps of the type that is designed for the local associations. For those who don't know, on the morning of the annual Council meeting (to decide SBA policy) there is a Local Association secretaries meeting at which local association secretaries and their guests from their associations debate topics raised. This is an excellent way of bringing about more local involvement, and the sharing of experience widely available in the country. Sometimes the discussion could be focussed better on the needs of local associations but this really depends on the chair on the day.

    I really like the idea of a regional insert with the magazine. I get one with the Scottish Wildlife Trust magazine. This could be something for the local area representatives who - in my view - could be used better. A related point perhaps is that the Executive is large. It should make more use of technology to conduct its own business and I think that it would make more progress if it was slimmed down, perhaps for some of the regular meetings.

    If the magazine was hived off somehow the association would be seriously weakened and would have to re-invent one, just as the BBKA is doing with its newsletter so it seems (no personal experience as I'm not a member). Bad move, thankfully highly unlikely.

    On DL's points, I think that the SBA has made serious attempts to be democratic and seek the views of the membership although it is also driven to some extent by the views held by individuals on the Executive. I remember a good open debate and votes on the SBA's attitude to the evolving Scottish Honeybee Health Strategy - which came out with an overwhelming majority in favour of the compulsory registration DL mentioned (I was one of the few voting against). All such decisions come in the circumstances of the time and a year or two later the membership might think differently. Of course, if you don't go to the meetings you wouldn't get to take part! At the level of interest the forum attracts on a regular basis it will be a long time before this medium can be considered an alternative to in-person debates of that kind.

    This isn't the thread to go off on a long tangent on global warming but there is good evidence already that Scotland's climate has more extremes of weather now that man is undoubtedly warming the planet with greenhouse gases. Maybe the shift in mean temperature has not been deleterious to bees, but the increasing extremes of wind and wet are.
    Last edited by gavin; 10-08-2011 at 06:58 PM.

  2. #12
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drone Ranger View Post
    We are moving toward the Centenary of the SBA but are we moving further away from its founding principles ??
    In what way? Simply by not encouraging enough LA members to be SBA members too? We do ... and even the benefit of the free Compensation and Insurance cover alone justifies that if anyone hesitates.

    We don't demand that those in our beginners class also become SBA members, but encourage it. I had a hard enough struggle getting the committee to agree to push the fee up to £20 to cover the £10 for ESBA membership!

  3. #13
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    As a member of both the BBKA and the SBA, here's my tuppence. Though I'll have to hold my hands up and say that in day to day life I have precious little contact with either organisation. In the case of the BBKA this is largely deliberate on their part, day to day stuff is the Local Association's remit and they're not interested in it. In the case of the SBA, well Bristol is a little more than just South of Aberdeen but I do value my membership for the magazine and this website as much as anything else.

    Regarding Beecraft, I actually think that the Scottish Beekeeper Magazine is better than Beecraft though I think they've been a little stabbed in the back via the BBKA's newsletter revamp which appears to be trying to muscle in on Beecraft's territory. Also worth a mention that their Electronic version, in my opinion, is a complete train wreck, it was so bad that I cancelled my sub and asked for the paper version back as it's more flexible, go figure.

    The other problem I have with bee craft as a publication is that the more experienced I get, the less relevant I find the information within it. I'm already down to a subscription every other year as I found last year that much of the content in bee craft I already knew or could easily get from other sources. I don't need "here's how you do an artificial swarm" from my magazine when I can ask, and get an answer in seconds, on numerous forums and websites around the internet.

    Gavin raises a valid point about "modernising" for the sake of doing so without giving consideration to what's being modernised and why it's being done, the BBKA website being a prime example of that and the electronic version of bee craft for that matter.

  4. #14
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    Global warming is certainlya subject in its own right, but is nonethless relevant to the question of SBA membership.

    SBA could do a lot worse than ally itself with bodies and projects that promote positive action in the face of global warming, but definitely not with the prophets of doom.

    Many people have become more aware of bees, or take an interest in beekeeping, or have in fact started to keep bees, because they see a healthy thriving bee population as both indispensible to and a key indicator of a healthy natural environment. They may not necessarily be able to articulate that clearly or act consistently with that understanding, but the concern is nonetheless real - as is the hope they can do something practical. They may see beekeeping as potentially part of a new liefstyle and modified (or rediscovered?) personal or family values which they feel will best promote the future of their children and the world as we know it. Of course there are still many people who keep bees simply because it is fun, fascinating, relaxing or economically worthwhile. SBA could perhaps carry out a survey to learn more, and then work to get resources channeled accordingly. I would expect concern over climate change to be a very significant factor for many newcomers. As with all new ventures, there's excitement and enthusiasm and SBA should do its utmost to capture that and direct it to best effect. Opportunities to meet others beginners to share experiences, experts to learn from, so that is a growing, positive experience - and fun too!

    It goes without saying, surely, that SBA needs to connect direct members with local associations, and those who have contact first with local association with SBA. Perhaps SBA could offer membership of local association as a bolt-on at a reduced amount, and vice-versa.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    In what way? Simply by not encouraging enough LA members to be SBA members too? We do ... and even the benefit of the free Compensation and Insurance cover alone justifies that if anyone hesitates.

    We don't demand that those in our beginners class also become SBA members, but encourage it. I had a hard enough struggle getting the committee to agree to push the fee up to £20 to cover the £10 for ESBA membership!
    Thanks for the posts Gavin points well made all
    I suspect you are correct that the SBA is not ready for a jump into the 21st century technology.
    How many commitee members are here on the forum debating the issue ??
    I am sure you want the SBA to fulfill its mission to be an organisation which represents and includes the existing beekeepers in Scotland.
    The magazine if it had an online version could be much more colourful and dynamic
    The new Ed seems to be moving away from the letters to the editor arguments
    Just as well really because of the timing issues replies to letters were 2 months later then the original
    I have a beecraft subscription and an online one invaluable when you want to look something up
    The previous editor resented some of my critisism of the mag and comparisons with Beecraft
    His reply was such an innaccurate portrayal of Beecraft that their editor of that magazine wrote to Scottish Beekeeper correcting him
    The beecraft editor also offered to freely disclose any experience they had in publishing and attracting contributors etc
    As far as I know that offer was not explored
    I understand the difficulty in getting the East of Scotland Beekeeping Assoc members to also take membership of SBA but should that not just come at a much discounted top up of say £5 Neonach has already identified this

    I think discount vouchers in the mag and a good healthy bees available section are key
    Product reviews or diy projects not reviews of Local Assoc meeting etc

    THe new Ed had made progress but the magazine was better in the 1930's and 40's during the great depression and the second world war than it is even now

    Regional insert yes please the conditions are so varied around the country that would be very helpful
    Last edited by The Drone Ranger; 10-08-2011 at 07:23 PM.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nellie View Post

    Regarding Beecraft, I actually think that the Scottish Beekeeper Magazine is better than Beecraft Also worth a mention that their Electronic version, in my opinion, is a complete train wreck, it was so bad that I cancelled my sub and asked for the paper version back as it's more flexible, go figure.

    The other problem I have with bee craft as a publication is that the more experienced I get, the less relevant I find the information within it. I'm already down to a subscription every other year as I found last year that much of the content in bee craft I already knew or could easily get from other sources. I don't need "here's how you do an artificial swarm" from my magazine when I can ask, and get an answer in seconds, on numerous forums and websites around the internet.
    Nellie were you a subscriber to the Scottish Beekeeper mag when they used to print 5 page rants about GM crops
    Its only recently the Editor has stopped 4 and 5 page long rants in favour of flooding the country with swarms

    You will never have read anything written in that way in Beecraft

    Would you welcome colour printing in the Scottish Beekeeper or is black and white better
    How about a picture better than a thousand words (not if you can't print them it isn't)

    Take your point about beginners articles but they do lots of other stuff
    Both sides of the breeding for resistance argument for instance

    Sorry don't mean to advertise their mag its just the production value and content is better.
    Scottish beekeeper obviously has greater relevance to beekeeping in Scotland

    Gavin for webmaster 1 vote(mine)
    Last edited by The Drone Ranger; 10-08-2011 at 07:45 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drone Ranger View Post
    Nellie were you a subscriber to the Scottish Beekeeper mag when they used to print 5 page rants about GM crops
    Its only recently the Editor has stopped 4 and 5 page long rants in favour of flooding the country with swarms
    I saw the repeats on here I think.

    You will never have read anything written in that way in Beecraft
    I don't actually want to sound too critical on Beecraft, it served me very well in my first year, the problem was in second year it was still serving first year beekeepers well and not really doing a huge amount new that I couldn't obtain by reading last year's copy. What was then interesting to me was an article here or there but that wasn't really justifying the subscription. I read an article here or there and skim others in Beecraft. I just find that in terms of what I want, Scottish Beekeeper and the BBKA newsletters (prior and post revamp) serve me better than Bee Craft.

    Would you welcome colour printing in the Scottish Beekeeper or is black and white better
    How about a picture better than a thousand words (not if you can't print them it isn't)
    It doesn't bother me, but I think perhaps I want something different from Scottish Beekeeper than you do.


    Take your point about beginners articles but they do lots of other stuff
    Both sides of the breeding for resistance argument for instance
    Granted, but they seem to have a heavy emphasis on beginner's beekeeping techniques. I'm not being critical of that and some of their supporting material is excellent, but I find it hard to justify £20 a year for 75%+ stuff I already know. I'm not so much interested in the general beekeeping technique 101 anymore I want a publication that takes a step up from that point and in many respects the Scottish Beekeeper does provide that (amongst others)
    Sorry don't mean to advertise their mag its just the production value and content is better.
    Scottish beekeeper obviously has greater relevance to beekeeping in Scotland
    I think here's the perfect place to have such a discussion to be perfectly honest and I won't argue with you over the production value or, depending what you want from a publication its content. Beecraft has a place for sure though I'm surprised at just how poor it's online version is when you compare it to a subscription to, for argument's sake, the Guardian which as an online publication experience is a million miles away for a 10th of the price. That's the benchmark of any online publication that I've tried (and paid for).

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nellie View Post
    It doesn't bother me, but I think perhaps I want something different from Scottish Beekeeper than you do.
    ).
    Nellie I've had articles printed in both the mags
    heres how they differed
    Beecraft read the article,said they were interested, edited and reformated it, resized photo's etc, reworded and massaged, then sent the reformatted version back to me for approval before going to print

    Scottish Beekeeper took the article said they would print it stripped out all the photographs formatted it into the usual two collumns of text and went straight to print
    Needless to say it was a shadow of the original and hard to follow in places even for me and I wrote it.

    Things might be better now but I could only ever submit a text only article to the Scottish beekeeper mag, and that discourages me, and I suspect people much better suited than me, from making the effort.

    Hence they always seem to be struggling to fill the mag in recent years it was often little more than a collection of snips from the internet

  9. #19
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    Could be and maybe the SBA need to look at how they fund, and what they want from the SB.

    There is a fundamental difference between the two. Beecraft you have to pay for, they need to deliver quality, SB comes with the subscription. Yes it should be interesting and be of a higher standard than a couple of sheets of A4, but there has to be a cost element involved in that too. I was paying £20 a year for bee craft, I pay what? The same for my entire membership of SBA.

    I don't know what they pay the editor of SB, but I'd hazard a guess that it's not a full time job while I'll also go out on a limb and suggest that bee craft must be paying a few editorial if not administrative staff to do the work to get the magazine published.

  10. #20
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Like all SBA posts the editor gets no remuneration but only hassle from the disgruntled.

    As I said, the magazine has been repeatedly discussed, including at meetings of the membership, and I think that the new editor needs some peace on that front.

    He could perhaps benefit from a helpful team around him to share the various burdens including the kind of editing functions that DL described for Bee Craft.

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