bees sting neighbour

[The Drone Ranger]

Grey wagtails are common enough here, Droney, I think. What's their range supposed to be? Saw a wagtail belting across Tobermory Bay when fishing the other night - too fast to observe the type - chased all the way by a sparrowhawk. You'll be please to hear the wagtail made it into thick cover!

Trog
I've only ever seen one Grey Wagtail
Mull sounds better all the time you might have me as a neighbour at this rate.
Do you think it's worth sending in an article on Grey Wagtail to "Scottish Beekeeper"

The green on the map is where they are resident and the yellow where they are seen in Summer.

The other possibility for an article is a potato soup recipe but I nicked that from the BBC website and they might sue.

As for the wing harvest Gavin you could collect some off the floor in Winter that would be kinder

[Jimbo]

Hi DR,

SICAMM are fully aware of the native Amm in Scotland so much so that they came to Aviemore for their conference a few years ago. The problem we have in Scotland is that there has never been a proper conducted survey done of Scottish bees since the Stokley's survey a number of years ago. Their method was wing morphometry but using a slide projector and projecting onto a screen to get measurements. Things have moved on since with the use of computers and scanners and specific software to do the wing measurements but the basic method is still the same

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Jimbo

Yes I remember the SICCAM conference came to Scotland
Not because I was there, but because it filled many of the pages of Scottish Beekeeper that month.
I am sure the editor at the time must have been very grateful, although, I think some of the readership like myself might have been somewhat bemused by the amount of attention it received, previously having been totally unaware of it's existence.

Still we all know about it now thank goodness.

I was checking out a website selling bees and equipment (can a mention them ?) perhaps best not . Anyway their initials are Bid4Bees there were queens on sale there among other things ranging in price right up to a Welsh black bee with some pedigree in the wing department -- a snip at only £45.

I'm a bit strapped for cash at the moment so I don't mind if you or Gavin dive in there and snap the little beauty up ready for next season

I'm putting all funds towards replacing the bee jacket I have so many holes stitched up in the veil I would be better with a Burka and some net curtain

Ps. Its about time the ungrateful blighter's put you on the map

[Jimbo]

Hi DR
I'll give the Welsh 'native' a miss (we don't refer to them as black anymore) as I am quite happy with my local bees which just so happen to be high native Amm or near native Amm. Our local Amm colonies do need some help though in conserving the strain due to all the hybrid colonies that surround them. In particular by the new beekeepers who don't know any better. I have a policy of giving a new beekeepers who live on our Peninsula a nuc colony of the local Amm to help spead the strain in the area, hence I don't sell any native queens etc.
There are still pockets of pure Amm in Scotland and we are starting to discover more areas each year. We also hope to have DNA analysis done on some of these colonies to confirm the morphometry results. Morphometry is just a tool that a beekeeper can easily use but you must also take into account the other morphological factors for the strain.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Jimbo

Very wise move getting the new beekeepers off to a good start.
I read some good online stuff about bee breeding in the States
I think the links are in the "why AMM" thread

The main thrust was improving the bees but inbreeding was a definite problem.
In Brother Adams book he made the point that you need lots of unrelated queens to avoid inbreeding.

I suppose that is a worry from your point of view as well, if the population is a closed one and if all the new beekeepers have the descendants of your original bees you might need some new blood.

Ruttner apparently thought the AMM bee originated in Iberia and wanted the name to reflect that (Spanish Bee ??) probably something more latin Iberiensis ?

Most of my bees are a very mixed bag some black some stripey some more yellow

There seems to be a lot of conflicting evidence on the drone congregation area front.
From what I can gather most authorities say the drones from the local apiary are most likely to congregate at the nearest one
About 10% go further afield and only a small % move from one to another

Queens on the other hand appear to fly away from local apiary a mile or so and this avoids inbreeding

To be able to maintain a breeding station in isolation you need a minimum distance to the next door bees of 6Km
The one I haven't got a handle on is how many colonies you need some claim its 700 to avoid losing sex alleles
That's a lot of bees so they need a lot of forage that might point to breeding more on a National scale rather than local

What do you think being right at the sharp end so to speak ??

[Jon]

Ruttner apparently thought the AMM bee originated in Iberia and wanted the name to reflect that (Spanish Bee ??) probably something more latin Iberiensis ?

DR.
You might be interested in this paper. 'Thrice out of Africa' Check the diagram on page 3.
The honeybee originated in Africa and the Spanish race (Iberensis) is closely related to AMM as it was part of a separate migration.

Amm is quite distinct from Carnica, or Ligustica which may well be one of the reasons for the bad reputation of the hybrids.

http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/sh...ghlight=thrice

[The Drone Ranger]

DR.
You might be interested in this paper. 'Thrice out of Africa' Check the diagram on page 3.
The honeybee originated in Africa and the Spanish race (Iberensis) is closely related to AMM as it was part of a separate migration.

Amm is quite distinct from Carnica, or Ligustica which may well be one of the reasons for the bad reputation of the hybrids.

http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/sh...ghlight=thrice

The original africanised bees then ?

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi DR
I'll give the Welsh 'native' a miss (we don't refer to them as black anymore) as I am quite happy with my local bees which just so happen to be high native Amm or near native Amm.
.

http://www.arthurbick.co.uk/better_bees/Blog/Blog.html

Somebody should tell these guys that they are native AMM they think they are British Black

Interesting queen finding tips though check the link

http://www.arthurbick.co.uk/better_b...the_Queen.html

[Jon]

Jim is correct - black bee is a very misleading term. The worst bees I have ever handled were black as yer boot and I strongly suspect the colony was an AMM carnica hybrid.
I have requeened about a dozen colonies this year and they are all looking very good with regard to temper.

I believe the human race originated in Africa as well but I would not claim to be African.

[The Drone Ranger]

I looked at the Galtee Breeding group site and I appears that when they started they had 250+ hives between the founders.

Would you say that's about the hive numbers you need to avoid inbreeding??

I'm still unclear on the numbers needed to avoid inbreeding.

What do you think??