bees sting neighbour

[The Drone Ranger]

So ... we all need to get imported bees because local ones are pretty much the same and they'll be local soon enough.

Commercial beekeeping and hobby beekeeping would soon be in perfect harmony. Nobody importing is likely to make any difference to the genetics of the UK overall. Embracing imports would allow the SBA to really boost its membership in line with the huge increase in import-loving Scottish beekeepers ... and then we wouldn't need AI or piecemeal approaches and little local breeding groups and their small enclaves?! I think that I have it now then DL, thanks for clarifying!



I'm still wondering though why we are now encouraging B to buy an ill-suited import which will inevitably rebound on her and give her even more fierce colonies in the seasons to come?

I don't like imports any more than you
The demand for bees is there
If we support UK breeders commercial or otherwise then eventually imports will stop
Scottish Beekeeper used to carry ads from John Furzey and others not huge breeders but valuable
If UK breeders produce queens at say £15 then importing becomes uneconomic
I think breeders of Carniolan Buckfast and AMM all have a place
I get the impression that you don't agree because you hope everyone will end up with a single type of bee AMM, no harm in that, but you have to come up with a convincing strategy.
Taking the available stock in Perthshire and breeding your way back to 'pure' AMM wont stand up as a plan particularly surrounded by large commercial operations who all use imported carniolan queens.
My point about 'local' queens relates to Jon's post which links Thornes site selling queens. Presumably they are 'approved' suppliers but how local is local nothing more than that.
SBA membership is low are all the members of your Local Association SBA members? is that automatic?

[gavin]

Taking the available stock in Perthshire and breeding your way back to 'pure' AMM wont stand up as a plan particularly surrounded by large commercial operations who all use imported carniolan queens.

You may be right but we (and by that I mean a collaboration with two Fife enthusiasts) have an isolated mating site identified and are willing to give it a go. Alex seems frustrated by the lack of action his side of the water but feel free to cajole, suggest, and help Alex.

SBA membership is low are all the members of your Local Association SBA members? is that automatic?

No, it is a personal choice to subscribe or not to the SBA. Do you think that SBA membership is lower than it should be? Maybe we should start another thread on this.

[The Drone Ranger]

You may be right but we (and by that I mean a collaboration with two Fife enthusiasts) have an isolated mating site identified and are willing to give it a go. Alex seems frustrated by the lack of action his side of the water but feel free to cajole, suggest, and help Alex.



No, it is a personal choice to subscribe or not to the SBA. Do you think that SBA membership is lower than it should be? Maybe we should start another thread on this.

Another thread on increasing SBA membership I'm up for that
Membership is much lower than I think it should be judging by my contacts its only about 20%
Cell punching is another thing people might be interested in.
Making a Skep
grafting tools
breeding for resistance LOL!! that should be a fiery one I'm not going there.
.
Alex made his points fairly and reasonably I thought it made good sense to me.
Can't do much to help anyone at the moment because of the voluntary movement restrictions.

[Jon]

My point about 'local' queens relates to Jon's post which links Thornes site selling queens. Presumably they are 'approved' suppliers but how local is local nothing more than that.

I know nothing about the quality of queens from Thorne. I linked to demonstrate what I considered an exorbitant price rather than indicating any approval.

Once you start buying pure race queens you are trapped into repeat buying every year like the commercial guys, as the temperament tends to deteriorate a couple of generations down the line.

I think it is better to avoid that by working together with the beekeepers in your area.
If you are one of the more competent or knowledgeable beekeepers in your area, people will be more likely to cooperate, especially if they see a personal benefit.
Most beekeepers I know let their bees swarm and just tend to hope for the best re. the new queen heading the original colony.

I can't think of anyone I know who would pay £50 for a single bee although I do have a mate who breeds daffodils who paid £120 for a single bulb and I believe it was an import from Holland

[The Drone Ranger]

I know nothing about the quality of queens from Thorne. I linked to demonstrate what I considered an exorbitant price rather than indicating any approval.

Once you start buying pure race queens you are trapped into repeat buying every year like the commercial guys, as the temperament tends to deteriorate a couple of generations down the line.

I think it is better to avoid that by working together with the beekeepers in your area.
If you are one of the more competent or knowledgeable beekeepers in your area, people will be more likely to cooperate, especially if they see a personal benefit.
Most beekeepers I know let their bees swarm and just tend to hope for the best re. the new queen heading the original colony.

I can't think of anyone I know who would pay £50 for a single bee although I do have a mate who breeds daffodils who paid £120 for a single bulb and I believe it was an import from Holland

I didn't think you had approved them I mean SBA approved
They are a very good company do you have them in NI as well

I think £15 - £20 would be a fair price but before you get the calculator out we don't need any more imports here LOL!

I've been putting honey in jars and now the cat is stuck to the pedal bin

[Jon]

They are a very good company do you have them in NI as well

I like Thorne. They are pricey but the staff are very civil. We don't have a shop but there are a number of accredited agents who supply Thorne stuff from home or the garage. I was just checking out the 3k Tub of Apiguard. £92 when vat is included. Carriage is free when the order is over £100 so I will order a spare veil or a few more porter escapes.

£20 is fair enough for a queen although for the amount of work involved it is a labour of love.
We still have a lot of beekeepers who say it is 'bad luck' to sell bees.
Curiously it is the crap beekeepers who always lose their bees over winter who say this.
They appear with the daffodils every spring checking to see who has 'spare' bees or 'too many' bees.

Do you think there are many takers for the Thorne 6 frame nuc in Scotland, collection only, a snip at £220 plus VAT.

You are ahead of me on the honey as mine is still in a settling tank. Must get the rest of my supers off this weekend.

No cat to stick anywhere but could immobilise the dog.

before you get the calculator out we don't need any more imports here LOL!

Best to work with local AMM if you can find it but I would not have reservations about taking stock from the UK or Ireland from a reliable source.
I have some Galtee genetics in my apiary and as you well know it is a long way to Tipperary from Belfast.

[Trog]

I like Thorne's too. Very prompt and friendly service and - most importantly to islanders who are tired of being overcharged for carriage by many firms - they don't charge us extra for delivery. It's the same for us as for mainlanders, free over £100 (which is all too easy to spend once I open the catalogue!!)

[madasafish]

Have you checked if there are any bee improvement groups in your area? They are all over the uk and many of them, but not all of them, favour the native bee.
The idea that queens are always available on demand encourages some of the sharks who are only interested in making a fast buck out of beekeepers. OK, I know it is about supply and demand but many of the better beekeepers rarely buy in queens or buy in just one or two to do their grafting from.
It is not hard to rear your own queens but it takes a certain mindset.

.

Our local Association has BIBBA members. They are secretive, tell little of what they are doing and have no queens available... (at least not to newcomers like me)..


I am not an impatient "got to have it now " consumer but frankly some of the beekeeping fraternity are growing old, and stuck in their ways.

It's all very well saying I've never bought a queen if you keep bees and breed your own or know someone who does.. but most newcomers don't. SO where do they turn? To BIBBA? A joke to outsiders...

And all this talk of banning imported bees when the local beekeepers could not supply demand and have been dying out and reducing in numbers over the past 20 years is just .. talk unfortunately.

The resurgence of beekeeping is due to new entrants to it: many have not enough time so buy what is easily available... Local bees are usually not available until after June - which gives a newbie little time to prepare for winter.

The BBKA has similar problems to the SBA in not converting newcomers to members... I suspect a complex mix of causes.. but in reality if local Associations can't or won't supply newcomers with bees # then an immediate reason to join is missing.

# I mean at fair market rates..

Our local Association started this year raising nucs and queens.. about 75% of the members who helped at the Association Apiary were members of less than two years .. ...

[Jon]

Hi Madasafish.

I started a queen rearing group this year and we have about 20 involved. Most of them have been keeping bees for between 1-3 years, very few with much experience but they are enthusiastic and motivated which is half the battle.
We have about 85 AMM queens mated so far and most members of the group have got a queen or two, some have five or more.
The way to go is working as a team, via your bka or independently if you have the local contacts.
I am a Bibba member and one of the others is a bibba committee member, but that is beside the point as the main thing is to harness the enthusiasm.
We met last night and it was too cold to do any direct work with bees so we just sat around and chatted about plans for next year and it is heartwarming to see the enthusiasm.
13 of my queens went to make up nucs for a local association at £20 per queen and a lot of the other queens reared in the group will end up in nucs for new members at around £100 per nuc.
One of our main aims is to provide nucs of gentle, non swarmy bees to the beginners as members of my BKA have had huge problems with bees which are aggressive and bees which swarm all the time, not Carniolans in this case, just yellow mongrels. There are a few people who provide newbies with swarms every year but the bees are impossible to work with. Some of the more enlightened members of the group have been using their AMM queens to requeen colonies of swarmy yellow stock.
Every BKA should be trying to provide the newcomers with nucs at a competitive price and if that were the case the import debate would be largely academic.
If noone is doing it in your area, start it up yourself. I bet you get plenty of support especially from the new beekeepers.

[nemphlar]

I was tempted in my second year in the early eighties to try a pale leather coloured Q from comercial breeder down south, she wouldn't stop laying in any circumstance and all summer I had to monitor to avoid them starving, although I got rid of her it did give me enough bees to be able to make up nucs and breed my own from my local Queen.(the first q I bred lasted 5 years, happy days) During that time I had use of a plum orchard in the clyde valley and attempted to breed my own queens in the same area, but due I think to lots of small holders using imports as I had, at least 50% of the queens were pale banded and although the hybrid vigour made them good gatherers they were impossible to work and I reverted to breeding in the back garden which is 2 miles and 400feet further up the valley, this seems to be enough to eliminate the mongrel drones. Pre varroa 4 years ago I had bred my own, couldn't decide at that time if struggling bees were due not only to varroa but to inbreeding and managed to get a local Q from Eric MaCarthur to add to the mix and had a little success using OA treaments till last year when cerana N gave a second hit.
The reason I thought it worth mentioning my experience is that I belive if I were a commercial beekeeper I'd be happy to live with the problems of a prolific commercialy bred Q or an agressive prolific hybrid to pack the supers with rape et al. While as a hobbyist life was impossible with this type. Impossible to resolve as the needs are different.
Even so is the SBA the place to list all thhe new sites who are trying to create breeding sites