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Thread: Bee survival percentages

  1. #1
    Member voytech104's Avatar
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    Default Bee survival percentages

    Does anyone has similar data for Scotland ?

    Date of hatch survive through the winter percentage

    until 26 July - - 39%
    between 27 july until 26 august " " 82%
    between 27 august until 7 september " 88%
    between 8 september until 18 september - " " 70%
    between 19 september until 27 september - " " 41%
    between 28 september until 8 october - " " 30%

  2. #2
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    Hi Voytech. Where did you get your data from?
    39% before 26 July is pretty poor.

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    If that means 39% of the bees hatched in some period before 26th July will still be alive in spring, that sounds fine to me. I get the increasing percentage to early September, but why does it decrease after then?

  4. #4

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    Voytech

    I think its highly unlikely that any bee hatched in July other than a Queen would still be around in Spring.
    No bees that become foragers could survive
    Juvenile Hormone levels would be too low in July bees for the required lifespan

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Maybe in the situation where a queen is shutting down laying early? An older queen or one in an environment where there is good spring and summer forage but conditions in autumn discourage more brood raising.

    It does seem unlikely when bees are busy on late summer and autumn flows, and raising lots of brood on them too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    If that means 39% of the bees hatched in some period before 26th July will still be alive in spring, that sounds fine to me. I get the increasing percentage to early September, but why does it decrease after then?
    I wonder if it's because at the location where the tests were done the pollen quality was in decline. It could also be that by late September the nest was so small that almost every pupa had a varroa mite tucked in with it. We would have to know a lot about the conditions and location of the test to make sense of it. An interesting topic to study though.

    Rosie

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    A couple of times I have had to open colonies in late October and have been surprised to find 5 or 6 frames of brood.
    My queens usually slow down or stop in late August and then start up again with a vengeance in mid September when the Ivy starts.
    I have always imagined the bees which overwinter are hatched in September and October. Pure speculation on my part but like DR, I don't see how bees hatched earlier are going to be around in spring.
    I thought it was bees which never had to rear brood that lived longer, so the overwintering bees are pretty much the contents of the last brood nest

  8. #8

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    These articles touch on both Jon and Rosie's points and although they don't quite answer the question they are interesting nevertheless.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2398712/

    http://www.coloss.org/documents/wg3-..._download/file

    Quote from the coloss.org doc :-

    " Although beekeepers often do not like to treat their hives against V. destructor
    during July, the period that they are most probably collecting honey, treating the bees before their transition to winter bees does increase their lifespan and thus increases their chances to survive winter.
    Treating hives against Varroa in August or September results in lower lifespan of the winter bees than treating them in July, but a longer lifespan than not treating them at all"

    This little snip sort of agrees with Eric MacArthur's view that formic acid early is the best way to treat varroa

    Personally I am a bit windy where it comes to formic acid as "there's many a slip twixt cup and lip"
    So I prefer the thymol in August/Sept route
    Last edited by The Drone Ranger; 01-09-2011 at 05:55 PM.

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    Hi
    latest teaching I received (July 2011) purported that the best method is to alternate (yearly) between lactic acid (a really fun way to treat) formic acid and thymol – in order to prevent resistance buildup. I have bees since 2007 and have always treated with formic (not keen on the thymol residues in wax) in aug-sept and oxalic in Dec have yet to lose a colony. In three treatments so far this year 600-1000 mites fallen so far (four doses 60% to got).
    The proposal of treating in July is also just silly as it completely ignores reinvasion.
    Last edited by Calum; 02-09-2011 at 10:51 AM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calum View Post
    Hi
    In three treatments so far this year 600-1000 mites fallen so far (four doses 60% to got).
    The proposal of treating in July is also just silly as it completely ignores reinvasion.
    Calum
    Were these treatments in August then ?
    How many hives in the sample ?

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