Late nucleus/colony start - few beginners questions

[EmsE]

All on nationals; the nucs had dummy boards either side of the brood frames and polystyrene in all empty spaces and above crown board. My brood tends to start on the sunny side rather than in the middle.

I use double brood in winter, 7 in each box with dummy boards at the side & put insulation down the other side of the dummy boards and on top of the crown board- They wintered great. Mine also tend to build up on one side, usually the east. Probably because it usually starts raining her by lunch time .

[Neils]

Langstroths are bit bigger than Nationals in terms of cells on comb even though they usually have 10 frames against the 11 of a National. If you use self-spacing frames (Hoffman frames) then you can often get 12 in a National which redresses the balance somewhat.

DON'T put 12 frames in a National, Hoffman spacing or not. When the frames are new and only foundation they'll fit fine, once they're drawn and have a bit of propolis on them you'll have a hell of a job getting the first frame out of the hive without rolling bees and pissing off the colony before you've even started. I've got a couple of Nucs that are supposed to take 5 frames, I've reduced them all down to 4 frames and a dummy board because of precisely this issue, once you start rolling bees lifting frames out they get annoyed very quickly.

[gavin]

It works for me! Cannae be bothered with dummy boards most of the time. Usually there is a quiet frame at one end (there are 12 of them!) and I'm careful not to do terrible things to bees. Certainly don't roll them.

[voytech104]

OK, next question

Due to lack of the hive, I transferred bees from 5 frame Nucleus to 6 frame Nucleus day before yesterday evening. This morning I`ve checked this 6th frame and it has been built up completely and I think there is residue of honey at the bottom of cells.

Am I doing the wright thing feeding them just now? I`ll hive them to proper hive tomorrow and will add extra frames, question remains:

1. By adding extra feeding am I getting them to lay eggs or to store honey instead?
2. Should I have 'rapid feeder' constantly filled up with syrup 1:1 all the time or just add a little bit every 2 days or something?

[Jon]

Feeding is a bad idea unless they need it due to bad weather or no available forage. If you feed a nuc they will fill up the cells with syrup and the queen will have no cells to lay eggs in. In this sense it is counter productive.
I don't know if your weather of forage is much different from mine. I doubt it, and mine are bringing in huge amounts of nectar at the moment. I am taking frames of stores out of my nucs and giving them foundation or drawn comb so that the queen has more space to lay.
I noticed last week a lot of brood boxes are clogged with nectar and I am hoping they will move it up to the supers. One colony I artificially swarmed a fortnight ago had 5 frames of brood and the other six frames full to the brim with nectar and a bit of pollen.
Feeding should be based on observation. Only feed if they look like they need it. It won't make your queen lay more eggs unless you are feeding at a time when there is no nectar coming in.

[Adam]

I've just transferred three colonies to larger hives - all were jam packed with bees and the queen laying on all frames so they were desperate for the space. Weather hasn't been brilliant for the past few days so to encourage comb building I put some feed on. One has deciced to surround the brood area with the syrup and has also put syrup in the available spaces within the brood so the queen has little space to lay; some new comb has been drawn though. The other two have have drawn comb out very well and there is little in the brood area. One was an 8 frame National which had 8 frames put on top giving 16 in total. 4 frames were drawn and filled in 3 days. 2 more were 1/2 drawn and partly filled - so to answe the first post - they can get a move on and draw comb if have a mind to! (I think I had the right age of bee which helps!)

Such is the confusion of the beekeeper! I guess we just have to be intelligent with what food we give them. Obviously I have just failed!

[voytech104]

Thats what I was afraid of... Problem I have that all 3 colonies are 5 frame nucs and all frames are just with foundation so its gonna take lot more time now to build up combs. I will check in couple of days if they build up next frame (there is no feed). The weather will turn worse now (showers etc), but hopefuly they will grow fine.

[Adam]

In answer to Nellie, I DO put 12 frames in a National and 11 in a WBC brood box. The reason is that otherwise the propolis builds up on the hoffman bits and they tend to creep apart so you can then never get 12 frames in!
I do have some 5 frame nucs and lack of space can be a problem. However a bit of wiggling of the outside frame and the bees get out of the way - provided the comb is straight and there are no bulges in the stores.

[Neils]

I think you're all bonkers putting 12 frames in But I stand corrected. I hate messing with 12 frames.

[GRIZZLY]

I think you're all bonkers putting 12 frames in But I stand corrected. I hate messing with 12 frames.

Nellie,12 frames WILL fit nicely in standard national b'boxes because equipment suppliers now machine the hoffman side bars narrower.They are not a tight fit and to use 12 instead of 11 gives an easy increase in brood area.This is much superior to using a dummy board because the bees will propolise the frame edges if the board doesn't push everything back together tightly.If you don't want the bees to add propolis to the frame edges -just smear a very thin layer of vaseline on the mating faces.It's easy to keep the frames clean and removing excess wax or propolis should be a part of your routine maintenance.