Total newbie just about to take the plunge - HELP!

[Beer Hunter]

Guys,

I hope you can help me out; I'm just about to take the plunge and buy my first hive and don't want to make an expensive mistake

Can you tell me if beginners kits like these are worth the money:
http://www.bees-online.co.uk/view.asp?ID=1120
http://www.thorne.co.uk/thorne7.htm
Or should I buy items individually?

Are there retailers people would recommend above others?
Are there any retailers in the North East Scotland - the Inverbervie / Stonehaven area?

Where would I buy bees - on-line? I see from other posts on here that there is the potential for disease in bees locally. Can a beginner easily tell the difference?

Cheers,
Kev.

[Calum]

Hi Kev,

the Thorne price looks ok.. No idea about the quality though.
Maybe you will get a better price for a hive if you buy it with the bees. But whatever you do buy your bees locally with the advice of the local association.
You will need
2-3 Colonies / two really strong ones so you can create a third one this year..
# 4 Honey Pails (plastic with lids 12,5kg capacity)
# 1 Hive Tool - American long
# 1 Smoker as big as you can (burns longer between refills)
# Veil
# bee brush
that should get you started... I hope your local association has a Honeyextractor - you will want to hold off on buying that till you know if you want to carry on.

http://www.swienty.com/ is well respected here and is in english - prices are competative for over here. I think I got all that for under 80 pounds (http://www.holtermann-shop.de but in German) and my hives (with bees and 2 supers) for 150 pounds for each colony...
A good book is good, but I never bothered with the gloves. If you mow the lawn you dont need fuel for the smoker!
all the best
Calum

[rourkie]

Hi kev, look at thornes bees on a buget kits they are 2nd qaulity cedar but the bees dont care a complete national hive in the flat is £108.70+vat. or a package includes hive plus veil gloves ect£152 +vat, or look for second hand equipment on ebay, or bid4bees. make contact with you local beeks they may be able to help out with kit and bees regards rourkie

[Beer Hunter]

Great stuff guys - thanks

Kev.

[Beer Hunter]

rourkie,

I've just found the package you mentioned:
------------------------------------
Package 2 – The Basic Kit
Everything in Package 1
plus a smoker, hive tool, leather
gloves, jacket and veil, bee
brush, smoker cartridges,
feeder and mouseguard
– £175.00
------------------------------------

I understand I'll need a honey extractor etc later, but is there anything else I would need immediately?

You mention:

4bees. make contact with you local beeks they may be able to help out with kit and bees

Can you tell me how I would find my local "beeks"?

Cheers,
Kev.

[rourkie]

hi kev, go onto the scottish beekeepers web site and look for the local groups theres a list on the site , pick the group nearest to you contact secretary and join, regards rourkie

[Calum]

http://www.scottishbeekeepers.org.uk...tml/links.html

I needed 14 12,5kg buckets in 2009, from 9 colonies in June. I was in china in August so someone else harvested my summer crop for me (but they did the Folic acid treatment & fed them as payment)..
I guess it is easier here.

[gavin]

Good advice there from both (though in 2009 I didn't need any honey buckets at all!).

You asked if there was anything else? I'd say a second hive tool as I was always losing them in my early years! The second quality equipment at Thornes is usually good, and as they sold a lot in their January sale I think that they are making up more to sell which may be of better quality than usual.

There are always more bits of beekeeping equipment you can buy (best hide your credit card if you plan a trip to Thornes in Newburgh in Fife) but I think that kit would get you going.

I'll send you a PM with a good contact local to you, and maybe more besides.

[Neils]

Guys,
Can you tell me if beginners kits like these are worth the money:
http://www.bees-online.co.uk/view.asp?ID=1120
http://www.thorne.co.uk/thorne7.htm
Or should I buy items individually?

Kev,

It might have changed, but when I visited Maisemore last year, they told me that their starter package offered no discount over buying the items individually; it was just what they considered a reasonable bundle to get going with.

Personally I didn't like anyone's starter packs so learning that was actually a bit of a relief as it let me pick and choose the things I actually wanted rather than what someone else thought I should have.

If you can find a local supplier, I'd recommend at the very least paying them a visit. However you do it, you're about to hand over a significant amount of cash to get started so being able to try on different suits, play with the smokers and so on is well worth doing if you can in my opinion.

I've bought gear from both Maisemore and Thornes and find them a bit hit and miss in some respects. They both do shocking hive assembly instructions, fortunately the SBA has one of the best Hive assembly guides I found. Considering that once you start to bang nails in you've pretty much passed the point of no return, they could really do with sorting their assembly instructions out, they make IKEA look fantastic. I might just be bitter because I built a top beespace National brood box by mistake but I maintain it was the instructions at fault.

As a New beekeeper just going into year two, and just having taken delivery of this year's extra kit I'd say that if you can afford to do it, buy two complete hives (Floor, broodbox, roof, stand if necessary) and at least 2 supers. Also get a couple of extra frames over and above what you need to fill your initial buy. Spare kit is a godsend and while you can get away with it in the first year, extra gear to hand is very handy. You will be reacting to what the bees do rather than anticipating them so you'll need that extra brood box yesterday rather than in the 2-3 days that someone can ship it to you.

Don't buy buckets though. They are bloody handy but also really expensive. Get to your local pub or Deli and ask if they've got any spare sauce buckets (with Lids). They'll be food grade plastic and come in very handy for lugging syrup around or storing bits of old wax.

Actually that goes for anything that can be labelled "Beekeeper's...." If it isn't a hive or similar, go to B&Q and you'll get it for cheaper. I'm thinking of toolboxes, nails, blowtorches all that sort of thing (you do know that it is obligatory to have a blowtorch don't you?)

[Neils]

I thought this might be of interest, I came across the invoice for the gear I picked up at Maisemore when I started out last year. A national hive might not necessarily be the best choice for your bees and/or location, but it might give some idea of what's potentially involved. I bought:

1 Roof
1 Open Mesh Floor
1 National Brood box
2 Supers
1 Framed Queen excluder
12 DN4 Hoffman frames
12 Sheets of DN foundation
20 SN1 Frames
20 SN Foundation
2 pairs of 10 frame castellated spacers
1 Smoker
100grams of Frame Nails
2 Hive tools
1 Uncapping fork
1 Miller type feeder
1 Push in Queen cage
1 Fencer Veil Smock
1 crown/clearer board

That lot set me back £368.54

In terms of what I've learned since then (and bearing in mind I inherited a complete hive and 4 spare supers to begin with)

12 Brood Frames isn't enough, I ended up buying another 10 later on in the season and I still have a bunch kicking around the place ready made, just needing foundation adding.
Putting Super frames with foundation in 10 frame castellated spacers isn't a good idea, you end up with some frames drawn very deeply, some not at all. Put in 11 or even 12 frames to start with, get those drawn and then start to cut the number down or move drawn frames into a super with the spacers fitted.

A spare hive or a nucleus, if your budget can stretch to it, makes life so much easier. In the first season, if you get a Nuc, swarming MIGHT not be an issue. if it is, having a complete spare floor, brood box and roof suddenly makes things an awful lot easier to manage.

A miller feeder is handy if you need to give a colony a lot of syrup and you dont mind spending some time investigating methods to stop bees drowning. I still struggle with contact feeders to not have syrup going everywhere, but I also inherited a smaller rapid type feeder and that's worked out fine for me, the syrup stays in the can and bees tend not to drown in it.

Buckets, toolboxes, nails, hammers, blowtorches and all that jazz can be bought much cheaper from B&Q than a beekeeping supplier but I definitely recommend splashing out on a Stanley toolbox, they're more than Squaddie proof and make a handy seat for watching the bees go about their business.

I think that is not a bad starting package, spare hive not withstanding, I picked up rubber gloves from my supermarket of choice for all of 30p and I've not felt particularly that I lacked anything in particular last year. Extra bags of nails etc always come in handy, I'm pretty sure I had to buy extra pins for the frames at some point and now I keep finding the bloody thing everywhere.