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Thread: Grow, or die!

  1. #11
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    OK, reality check! Raising queens from eggs is possible, but not something for year one. You need to get to know your bees and beekeeping a bit more before making your beekeeping more complex than it has to be. If Andrew (he reads the forum from time to time by the way) is prepared to honour you with more of his stock, then go with that for now. Inbreeding is a risk but if you are getting two more stocks from him them start with that. You will need to ensure that they build up enough to survive the winter. If you currently have one colony then you can still raise nucs from that one, but would need to widen the genepool for the next generation. However your bigger and more immediate problem might be simply having enough drones and enough good flying days for mating. If I remember right the Shetland beekeeper resorts to AI to get his queens mated.

  2. #12
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    Thanks Gavin, maybe I'm just letting myself get over-anxious, and what's driving that right now is - as you so perceptively point out - the limited good flying days - as in good for mating, rather than foraging. Thankfully September here tends to be almost as good as August, if not as warm. Over the past 2 1/2 yrs of beekeeping I do feel I've got to understand the bees' behaviour and needs quite well, but there's so much to learn!!!!! I've tended to focus on queen-raising and mating, and only recently have I realized that of course the key to genetic diversity is at least if not more a matter of drones than queens, hence my interest in acquiring nucs rather than just queens. Thanks for your patience and advice.

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    Hello Jonathan
    Good for you for giving beekeeping ago in such an exposed location. I have kept bees in Orkney for the last 30 years with varying degrees of success so it can be done.
    It’s very easy to view beekeeping through ROSE TINTED GLASSES especially in your first few years. I suggest it’s best to have a few strong colonies and build up slowly. Splits and nucs made up in exposed areas can take along time to build up and in Orkney at the moment we have a few beginners struggling with bees which barely made it through the winter. So if that means having to unite colonies in the autumn or spring it will be for the best in the long term. Instead of doubling up each year why not try for a 50% increase. With strong colonies and the right weather conditions you’ll find out the honey potential in your area and that will help you decide if it’s worth expanding.
    I wouldn’t get hung up about pure Amm my bees are black mongrels with some Amm traits and they’re OK. Some final words of caution, we have a beekeeper who took 80 hives of bees into Orkney and he had great plans for queen breeding and honey production but partly due to our weather he quickly downsized by ¾.
    Lindsay

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    Wise words, Lindsay!

    Where did anyone get 80 varroa-free hives? Or was this some time ago?

    I think anyone keeping bees 'on the margins' as we do needs to be able to read the bees and know how to intervene when necessary. Books written for beekeepers in England or even the Scottish Central Belt are only slightly helpful! After 20+ years husband and I are still learning! No two years are the same.

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    Thanks for your helpful advice Lindsay - and that from others too. I hope I'm not trying to be too ambitious - with great plans that will never come to pass. I think I'm trying to be realistic, trying to find a practical balance between too small to be worthwhile/sustainable, and too big for my experience and skill - or what the local honey market will support. Incidentally I have myself seen in 2009 and 2010 how long it takes here to build a nuc up into a full brood box. This year is different: there is a truly astonishing quantity of pollen here this year (eg, clover everywhere though previously quite scarce), and there's been no gap to speak of at all. But more realistically, though I might aim to double each year for the next few years, I will in truth be very happy indeed to actually achieve a net increase of just the 50% you advise, after uniting in late summer and winter losses. Regarding the black mongrels you mention, as a breeder of pedigree (black Hebridean) sheep I know that what is defined as pure-bred is a totally artificial concept. If as I suspect you're saying that I might be as well to accept sources that are closely conformed to type (rather than true to type), then I heartily agree. More important that the physical characteristics and traits are strongly Amm-ish than text-book pure. Anyone reading this who can supply nucs to that 'standard' and disease/pest free, next year but ideally in next few weeks, please get in touch! Thanks again.
    Last edited by Neonach; 07-08-2011 at 10:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trog View Post

    Where did anyone get 80 varroa-free hives? Or was this some time ago?
    The bees came from near Fort Augustus Inverness-shire back in 2002 or 2003. The area was varroa free at the time. They were quarantined on another island over the winter and moved to our mainland the next summer. They did really well in the first year (loads of honey) but after that the weather wasn’t so good and queen rearing early in the summer was a non-starter. Quite a few hives were sold to beginners

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    I happen to know the beekeeper on Shetland as in an times past supplied him with some bees too. Yes he does some AI but mainly (or last I talked to him) relied on natural mating mostly. If anyone wants to think along the lines of egg transfer then why not give it a go? I am happy to make a phone call or two to help.

    PH

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    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    Neonach, I don't think you should buy ANY stock without Andrew's knowledge! According to my rough measurements using a ruler, the bees Andrew keeps near his home are within flying distance of you - regardless of where your hives are on Oronsay.
    Kitta
    Last edited by Mellifera Crofter; 31-10-2012 at 10:19 AM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neonach View Post
    ... but also because since he started we've seen the onset of varroa and a huge inward migration of non-native bees. ...
    I don't understand what you're trying to say in the sentence above, Neonach. There is no varroa on Colonsay and only AMM bees. What 'inward migration' are you talking about and, if it exists, how does that affect you?
    Kitta

  10. #20
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Kitta - Neonach hasn't been around for a few months, and if I remember right he said that he wouldn't be back. May have been a burst of forum spam that caused that at a time when I was distracted and didn't clear it up fast enough, or maybe he's decided that beekeeping isn't for him.

    I wouldn't worry about his bees affecting Andrew. He lives over 100km to the north of Colonsay. Last we heard about a year ago he was having difficulty with the mating of all of his queens, and was speculating again on perhaps trying something other than Amm - which would be a mistake in my opinion and against the opinion he heard here. Hopefully he'll return for advice if he does continue beekeeping.

    His comments on 'inward migration' probably refer to the other islands of Lewis and perhaps Skye, which I know less about.

    Gavin
    Last edited by gavin; 31-10-2012 at 11:36 AM.

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