Api Life Var vs Apiguard vs (insert favourite non Pyrethoid Varroa Treatment)

[Jon]

CCD is fairly nebulous to define and I am not convinced that it has occurred outside of the US.
A residue of a couple of hundred bees with a queen in springtime is not CCD, much more likely to be caused by one of the nosemas or PMS (parasitic mite syndrome) I have seen this in a couple of my own nucs and in other people's bees as well.
Local beekeepers who have had big losses - and it is always the same beekeepers year after year- are the ones who go on about CCD. When you press them there has been no varroa control, late varroa control or varroa control with some home made remedy.
A certain case of PPB and not very likely to be CCD.
They use things in the US for treating bees which we don't in Europe which could also be contributing to bee health problems long term due to synergies and interactions. Oxtetracycline, Coumaphos, Amitraz and who knows what else. If you remember the Engelsdorp paper from a couple of years ago found little evidence of neonicotinoids in the hive yet very high levels of chemicals put in the hive by the beekeeper as part of mite control.
Robert Paxton in his Saturday presentation at the Centenary mentioned he was looking at how fluvalinate interacts with some other pests, pathogens and chemicals. Fluvalinate is the active ingredient of Apistan and Bavarol

[gavin]

They use things in the US for treating bees which we don't in Europe which could also be contributing to bee health problems long term due to synergies and interactions. Oxtetracycline, Coumaphos, Amitraz and who knows what else.

All three of these are in use in Scotland! No sign of CCD in the bees involved though, quite the opposite.

[Jon]

Learn something new every day!
I don't think any of those are in general UK beekeeping use are they?
Are they part of that cascade system where a vet has to authorize the use?

[gavin]

Oxytetracycline can be prescribed and was widely used by bee farmers in Tayside (and officially managed) in autumn 2009.

Amitraz is Apivar and beekeepers of all scales have been getting it under the cascade system from a vet in Dumfries. I'd say that by now it is in widespread use.

Coumaphos? Also can be prescribed under the cascade system as it is approved in another EU country. I know that it is being used.

My impression is that there is less ladling of chemicals into hives than in the US, but there is some. There was one semi-commercial beekeeper locally who told our association that he was using a Danish recipe for pyrethroids from a non-approved source on his bees for example. I strongly suspect that he wasn't the only one.

[Jon]

Coumaphos was only approved in one other EU state afaik, maybe Cyprus.

Nowt in mine other than thymol and Oxalic.

Are people using formic acid and lactic acid? I think it was Eric used to talk about these.

[gavin]

My impression:

- mostly thymol and oxalic in one form or another
- still some Apistan
- Apivar becoming more widely used
- formic and lactic rather rare

Eric talks/writes about all sorts of chemicals. He likes playing with them .

[gavin]

Nowt in mine other than thymol and Oxalic.

Same here.

[Neils]

All three of these are in use in Scotland! No sign of CCD in the bees involved though, quite the opposite.

Just to skip back a little and given that if I buy into the shenanigans at all it's been around resides in wax I thought there were a couple of interesting, almost throwaway lines, in one of Keith Delaplane's talks that US commercial colonies with higher levels of coumaphos in wax were healthier than a lot of others, largely attributed to the mite knockdown.

I'm not a convert by any means but it was an interesting nudge to my thinking, if anything to reinforce my belief that varroa remains the biggest challenge that we face in beekeeping.

I still don't want pyrethoids near my hives.

[Black Comb]

I have noticeably higher drops this year. All colonies except one (in the middle of the apiary) with hardly any.
Same regime as last, oxalic at Chistmas and Apiguard August. Monitoring throughout the season showed very low drops so it has been a surprise, especially as most colonies were queenless (and therefore Broodless) for many weeks due to the weather stopping queens mating.

[nemphlar]

Had look through a few of the hives today 3 that had a 3 week thymol treatment have no brood and look a bit thin on the ground. The 2 that had 8day FA treatment still had brood and appear better set for winter. This was the first time I'd used thymol for autumn treatment, the point of which was to have healthy bees for over wintering, not much point if there has been no brood since start of treatment.
Anyone else finding this