Swarming Advice

[Hoomin_erra]

Just checked the 2 hives i have.
Here is the history:
Both hives pulled through the Cabrach Winter fine, albeit very reduced. Now, this may be pertly my fault because i replaced all the old frames that i had received with the bees when i got them with foundation during that 2 week warm spell we had back in march, which meant that both hives were on 2 drawn frames and 9 foundation. They have been very reluctant to draw out the foundation, so as per supplied advice, i removed the super, and fed. Just as well, because the weather here was awful for about 3 weeks, and they pretty much finished everything they had in stores.

Today:
Hive 1:
Seems Ok, eggs, stores, and just starting to draw out the foundation.

Hive 2:
Brood all over 2 frames. and one side of a 3rd that they have just drawn out. But i have found 1 charged QC, and 7 others with just eggs. Queens are new from last year, and they seem to be laying well. Standing at the back, the brood is against the left side of the box.

Bearing in mind the size of the brood nest, do i AS??

[Jon]

Colonies that size would be better in 5 frame nucs rather than full boxes with supers on.
They would build up much better with less space to heat. I would block off any unused space with a dummy board until the colony grows to a respectable size.
The rule of thumb for supers is to put the first one on when you have eight of the eleven frames well covered with brood.
Bees will not draw out foundation in poor weather or periods of low nectar income.
Something must be holding these colonies back as you should have most frames covered in brood at this stage.
Your queen cell could be an attempt at supersedure as a poor queen may be the cause of the slow build up.
Either remove the cell or assume it is a supersedure and leave it but splitting a colony this size would be unwise.

Why did you replace all the old frames?

[Hoomin_erra]

Replaced the old frames because they were very manky, and not in the best condition.

In hindsight, it was stupid. But then you know what they say about hindsight.

In regards to supercedure, i thought 1 cell meant supercedure, and lots meant swarming. And could it be that due to the fact that they haven't drawn out the foundation, the queen is saying there isn't enough space. There is plenty of pollen coming in, the gorse is in full bloom, and the bees are coming in luminous. Had a LOT of really crappy weather here, which i think has impacted their expansion. It's either been raining or howling a gale.

[Jon]

We have had the same weather here - dire, cold and windy, maximums of 12c-13c for 3 weeks but most of my ten colonies are on 8-10 frames of brood and my bees rarely make more brood than that even in good weather.
Old black comb is fine as long as you fumigate it it with 80% acetic acid and you are sure you do not have AFB.
Are you in a varroa area? Something is holding back colony progress.

Eggs in queen cups mean nothing as the bees usually remove them. A single charged queen cell is often a supersedure attempt.

[Hoomin_erra]

Ok, i'll stick a dummyboard in, and keep an eye on the QC's.
i'll keep feeding in the hopes that will make them draw out the comb.

Varroa, according to the "map", yes i am, but i have yet to see a mite, and i haven't spotted any oddities on the bees themselves.

My only concern with a spuercedure it that i am very remote, and as far as i know, there are no other beekeepers with miles of me. And so far i have noticed no drones in either hive. If they do supercede, i might very well end up with a virgin queen with no drones to mate with.

[gavin]

I did wonder about your drone population. In that case a supercedure is safer as the old queen will carry on - so if you think that might be what they are doing, encourage it.

[Adam]

Without knowing the area, Gavin, what would you expect to see as far as bee numbers are concerned in these two hives?

From a definite varroa area, it is rare to see any live varroa apart from drone uncapping - which can't be done in this case! However as soon as you see damaged wings and walking bees, the infestation is very high in my experience.

As Jon writes, I would reduce the size of the hive with a small colony.

One colony I have only just got through the winter - in a 16 frame National with OMF. They did start to build-up when I put them in a 5 frame nuc box in the spring. However I combined them with a bigger agressive colony soon after. The hive is running on double brood with about 15 frames of brood now so I think that the colony could not build up in the barn of a hive I gave them - there was nothing wrong with the queen or their general health.

[Jon]

I have had colonies dwindle in the spring to the point where I can fit them in an apidea!
I find the queen usually comes good if she is added to a few frames of bees and brood and put in a nuc.
A small colony in a huge space just doesn't work and I imagine it is a tad colder in Cabrach than Norfolk which is practically on the equator.

[Hoomin_erra]

If Norfolk is the equator, i'm probably skirting the icepack. Grampians at 1300 foot, and so far max temp has been about 15 degrees this year. Bonuses are loads of Gorse, heather, and in about a month, sheep fields covered in clover.

But i've cut them back to 6 frames, and am feeding like crazy. they are starting to draw out the foundation. So as they draw out the last frame, i'll add one. Yes i know it means not much chance of honey, but i'd rather have bees after this winter, than honey now.

[gavin]

This puts me in mind of a song. What a man.



I had three colonies come through the winter severely crippled, and my bees are literally metres above sea level. About 7m I think. Not high enough if the ice sheets melt.

All three have polystyrene dummies and polystyrene above their heads. One is picking up now and will be at full strength in the late summer. One is hanging on, just. And one died out a few weeks ago. Contrast that with their neighbours, two of which have boomed into two broodboxes, been split, and are making Q cells again.

So don't be disheartened HE, with luck and good beekeeping, next year will be better.

G.