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Thread: Co-op Imports New Zealand Bees

  1. #1

    Default Co-op Imports New Zealand Bees

    I'm not sure if this is an old story being revisited but there are some interesting threads in relation to the Co-op introducing hundreds of hives (imported queens from New Zealand) in England with some already introduced to north-east Scotland.

    http://www.britishbee.org.uk/forum/s...ead.php?t=4984

    http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9017

    I think some of the SBAi regulars may have contributed already. For my part it seems out of kilter with the aims of the SBA/BIBBA to be introducing imported queens en-masse.

    Should we not be pushing for local breeding initiatives which are linked to a national programme?

    Alex

  2. #2
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    One certainly has!

    Well, there is a small nucleus of an East of Scotland initiative which I hope will still go ahead despite friction over other matters ... where the idea was to test out a mating site but not to invite everyone in for now ... and there is already action elsewhere, as was presented in November in Scotlandwell.

    www.SBAi.org.uk/Breeding

    The bee farmer in question is aware of the east of Scotland plans and will, I think, cooperate by avoiding important sensitive sites.

    But a national programme? Is this for the SBA or BIBBA? Should there be a BIBBA coordinated effort N of the border?

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    But yes, mass importation of queens (and in this case full packages) is out of kilter with the aspirations of many, perhaps most, beekeepers N of the border. I'm surrounded by them and really don't like the idea - but I'm still happy to keep lines open. The 2010 importations were ostensibly to keep bee farmers afloat who had lost many, in some cases most, of their colonies in the 2009/2010 winter. Some with imported stocks did so but retained their near-native stocks in separate areas. Some - as in the thread you cite - are full converts to these highly bred Carniolans from NZ via Germany.

  4. #4

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    I wouldn't mind some nice carniolan drones in my area

    I didn't know it was a policy of the SBA to ask its members adopt BIBBA's ideas
    Last edited by The Drone Ranger; 02-07-2011 at 06:42 PM.

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Saw plenty of Carniolan drones today, but that was in Aberdeenshire. The SBA leans towards supporting a conservationist stance and generally tries to discourage imports but recognises that Scottish beekeepers have a wide diversity of opinions on the matter and so is not too dogmatic about that. BIBBA on the other hand exists to support and encourage the breeding and selection of British native bees. At least that is my understanding, although I do not speak for the SBA.

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    If you are a native bee breeder carniolan drones are a nightmare. Ruttner did a lot of work on aggressive hybrids and far and away the worst is the cross between AMM and carnica. Pure carnica such as the bees they work in germany are very docile but carnica Amm hybrids are the stuff of horror movies. bee breeders need to work together - as a mish mash of all the races is the worst possible starting point.

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    I'd love to get a decent grant to breed amm's in an isolated island en masse, dream job.
    Does st. kilda have bees?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    If you are a native bee breeder carniolan drones are a nightmare. Ruttner did a lot of work on aggressive hybrids and far and away the worst is the cross between AMM and carnica. Pure carnica such as the bees they work in germany are very docile but carnica Amm hybrids are the stuff of horror movies. bee breeders need to work together - as a mish mash of all the races is the worst possible starting point.
    Carnie crosses are a pain full stop in my limited experience. Mine won't let you in the apiary for any length of time. They propolise everything and I'm sure the buggers are going to try and swarm again.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    Neil, I thought carnis were not hign propolis producers - mine aren't.

    I have an eclectic mix of bees in my apiary. Carnis which produce lots of gentle bees then swarm - good for filling nucs with. My carnis seem to have no stores of pollen it seems - they just convert stores into bees.
    I have some darker propolis generators from my original colony- a more native looking bee. I also have some decent middle-coloured bees which are my favourite at the moment - they are from a caught cast last year. I have written (somewhere) about my second generation crosses from an imported NZ Italian queen. Out of the 4 daughters one was killed last autumn and two more went this Spring due to being BAD GIRLS. I am fortunate that I could unit hiives or drop in new queens. It is only in the last couple of weeks that the hives in question are well behaved as the bees laid in early April have now gone. However one of the offspring has given me 5 supers of honey so far including the one on a clearer board at the moment and there are 3 more supers on the hive and bramble and fireweed is in abundance . She has been laying 12 - 13 frames of brood in a double National all summer. The bees were a bit touchy earlier but they are now fine and they just keep on going. No queencells and few drones.

    Greed has prompted me to graft some queen cups from this colony in the hope I can get some more high-performers!

    In truth I am in a quandry as to which line I should breed from. I would like to breed from all (apart from the carni's).

    Relating to the original post, the worry must be that imported italians girls will mate with local boys and cause havoc.
    Last edited by Adam; 03-07-2011 at 08:16 PM.

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    Eclectic. Yes, I like that. Better than 'mongrel'

    I understand your quandry. The boisterous ones seem to be the best honey producers and the most docile tend to be so laid-back there's nothing to spare at the end of the summer. That's why I can't quite buy into the 'pure AMM' side of things, though I have some very nice dark bees. I also have some very nice bees with a bit of yellow on them. And some not quite so nice but still much more gentle than the ones on which I learnt donkey's years ago. And some that can be mildly tetchy, depending on the hive politics and the weather at the time, then sweet and cuddly at other times.

    Bramble and fireweed about to flower but escallonia and white clover in abundance, along with bell heather.

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