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  1. #3551
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    I have never had nucs abscond during mating as you have described although I have had absconding from mini-nucs but not nucs with full-sized frames.

  2. #3552

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam View Post
    I have never had nucs abscond during mating as you have described although I have had absconding from mini-nucs but not nucs with full-sized frames.
    These WERE mini nucs, worst of all were the Apideas. Nil abscondees from the mini plus size ones so far....but they did it last year.

    Early season just could not afford to set up 1000 full size nucs, either in hardware costs or in robbing the main colonies for the bees and brood needed.
    Last edited by Calluna4u; 14-06-2017 at 11:19 AM.

  3. #3553

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    So - is vQ mating dependent on nuc size? Is mating success greater in normal National brood frame nucs, intermediate size mini-nucs or small minis (eg, Apideas)?

  4. #3554

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    I suspect the answer to all of Alan's questions is "depends". I raise Qs as replacements, to try and select for positive traits, to sell a couple of colonies each year and to have enough colonies and young Qs to unite for the heather.
    On my scale its very convenient to have Qs on deep frames with their own bees and reduce risks of Q introductions. This year the weather has been decent and trying to get 9 new Qs on one site has given 7 decent, 1 that is noticeably smaller (scrub? and I know why) and 1 drone layer that I cannot yet find. These come from 2 and 3 frames mating nucs (with lots of stores - I'm paranoid about that since screw ups in the past) and a couple of strong colonies where the clipped Q beat me to swarm control. I suspect that the "grafters" will have similar OR BETTER rates of success. Its the next bit - the introductions where losses can occur. My own experience of introducing new Qs is pretty positive however - but this is only an n=2 experiment. And here I took some advice (thanks GR) and introduced to a relativity small nuc, got Q accepted before uniting with a bigger colonies that were needing to be re-queened.

    Aside - in Tayside: appears little nectar now coming in which is a surprise given the clover is out everywhere, its been warm and damp. I thought the gap was much closer to the end of the month. Anyone made observations?

  5. #3555
    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    OSR is long gone south of the Tay but the bumbles at least were hammering the bramble when I was last out.
    Of course, the pissistant rain last week has meant there's been no foraging going on ... and my access to the apiary is again flooded
    2017-06-13 16.38.52.jpg

  6. #3556
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alancooper View Post
    So - is vQ mating dependent on nuc size? Is mating success greater in normal National brood frame nucs, intermediate size mini-nucs or small minis (eg, Apideas)?
    From my experience and without detailed note-taking, I don't think that mating success is that much different between nucs on standard frames, smaller boxes and mini-nucs although the risk of losing all the colony to a mating swarm may be a little higher. (Not had that problem myself). However having nucs on standard frames is better if you can spare them because, in no particular order:-

    1) better chance of seeing the brood pattern of the queen rather than be on tiny frames.
    2) can expand into a complete nuc to overwinter if started early.
    3) no absconding
    4) queen matures more slowly before laying and may be more reliable when introduced to a full-sized colony. (A hunch - I am open to be proved wrong).
    5) less 'maintenance' and feeding compared to a small mini-nuc which can run out of room very quickly - so you are moving frames around to give space or having to move the queen out promptly.
    6) robbing less of an issue with a larger colony
    7) I suspect that a decent nuc will supercede a poor queen more readily than a very small mini-nuc colony; indicating there's a problem with her.

    However the cost per mated queen is probably less using mini-nucs.

  7. #3557

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam View Post
    However the cost per mated queen is probably less using mini-nucs.
    Good summary Adam.
    Last edited by Feckless Drone; 15-06-2017 at 12:53 PM. Reason: dringing, tis afte 12

  8. #3558
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Philip, that was me told you that.
    I was standing beside a hive which started to swarm.
    I quickly checked the record sheet and noted that the queen was clipped.
    Sure enough she dropped to the ground in front of the hive and I put her in a rollercage and returned her to the hive.
    The swarm had clustered at this point and I waited for it to return as it should have been queenless.
    After 45 minutes it was still hanging there so I went and collected it.
    It had picked up a virgin from one of my apideas. I had about 40 with virgin queens at that site.

    Calluna - I also had problems with virgin queens all taking to the air at the same time during the hot spell of 24-26 May.
    At one site I reckon I lost at least 30 out of 50 and the remaining Apideas were mostly overpopulated.
    Once you get fanning at the entrance they can call in workers and queens and carnage results.
    In the past I have picked apart clusters and found 5 or 6 virgin queens from my apideas in them.
    The problem is that the workers mutually ball the queens and you end up losing the lot.
    I used to try and rescue them but they have nearly always been damaged.
    Means that clipping is not a great guarantee as you could lose the prime swarm with a virgin from an apidea.

  9. #3559

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feckless Drone View Post
    I
    Aside - in Tayside: appears little nectar now coming in which is a surprise given the clover is out everywhere, its been warm and damp. I thought the gap was much closer to the end of the month. Anyone made observations?
    Hi FD
    Gap sems to be starting now but there is a lot of stuff (weeds) that might be ready to flower in a week or two
    My big colonies in smith hives or Lysons have loads of stores
    The nucs (which had a lot of wax to draw) some of them have next to no stores
    I have too many bees here at the moment for available forage
    Will be fixing that next month when half go elsewhere to pastures new (literally)

  10. #3560

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feckless Drone View Post
    Aside - in Tayside: appears little nectar now coming in which is a surprise given the clover is out everywhere, its been warm and damp. I thought the gap was much closer to the end of the month. Anyone made observations?
    FD - In Fermanagh, flowering times in April and may have been 2-3 weeks earlier than usual - the "June gap" probably started when the sycamore flow stopped and (hawthorn and holly had largely finished flowering by 25th May. Since then there has been much pollen coming in but not much nectar.

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