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  1. #2861

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    http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/intridl4.html
    Just some toxicity stuff
    Really nothing much seems to have been done since the 1930's
    You would conclude that acetic and formic are worse than oxalic
    It falls somewhere between Isopropranol and something like toluene which you will have used with your microscope
    These are figures of 30min exposure levels where there is no lasting effects or damage
    If I read it right, once they calculate the safe exposure they divide the no harm calculated dosage by 10 to arrive at their recommended maximum exposure level for 30mins

    Stand upwind then thats my advice

    Ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500g-Oxali...AAAOSwo6lWN1Q3
    Last edited by The Drone Ranger; 08-11-2015 at 02:27 PM.

  2. #2862

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drone Ranger View Post
    There is some further info in the link below about the safety of oxalic sublimation.

    Scroll to bottom of page and open the link headed... Evaporation of oxalic acid—a safe method for the user.

    http://www.agroscope.admin.ch/imkere...x.html?lang=en

  3. #2863

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete L View Post
    There is some further info in the link below about the safety of oxalic sublimation.

    Scroll to bottom of page and open the link headed... Evaporation of oxalic acid—a safe method for the user.

    http://www.agroscope.admin.ch/imkere...x.html?lang=en
    Thanks Pete thats a fairly clear recent study which gives reassurance to me as I stand upwind looking like Darth Vader

  4. #2864

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    Finally dug up the sequel to the first graph
    This is Summer 2009 through to Spring 2010
    Used a lot of different treatments trying to get caparisons of effectiveness
    Unfortunately I didn't keep enough notes so its largely just WYSIWYG
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4k...ew?usp=sharing

    Apologies for the link it's a PDF and I cant display that here but it can be enlarged and read more easily

    The hive numbers are at the top and not all consecutive but there are still 22 hives
    Screenshot-1.jpg

    Thats a screenshot which may not be readable by comparison

    I think you might agree that the Oxalic acid treatment gets to the varroa that other cleaners just don't manage
    Bit like Fairy Liquid used to claim

    Actually when there is brood present I think the Apiguard or Thymol Sponges (recipe in earlier post) are better bet (as you would expect)
    Last edited by The Drone Ranger; 08-11-2015 at 03:43 PM.

  5. #2865
    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRIZZLY View Post
    What is difference between API-BIOXOL and O.A apart from the HUGELY inflated price ?.
    You can't buy Api-Bioxal at a yacht chandlers in 25kg buckets

    More seriously, much of the the OA offered by a popular online auction house is 99+% pure, but the paperwork for the Api-Bioxal states that 88% is OA.Not sure what the remainder is, though I read a suggestion somewhere that it might be glucose.

  6. #2866

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatshark View Post
    You can't buy Api-Bioxal at a yacht chandlers in 25kg buckets

    More seriously, much of the the OA offered by a popular online auction house is 99+% pure, but the paperwork for the Api-Bioxal states that 88% is OA.Not sure what the remainder is, though I read a suggestion somewhere that it might be glucose.
    got my slogans crossed earlier

    "Refreshes the parts that other beers cannot reach"
    Heineken not fairy liquid

    I suppose fairy might have a good a head on it though

  7. #2867
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    I've also just read that it might contain an amount of glucose together with an anti-clog agent, I don't think I would like to sublimate that lot - just think of the toxic residues.

  8. #2868
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRIZZLY View Post
    I've also just read that it might contain an amount of glucose together with an anti-clog agent, I don't think I would like to sublimate that lot - just think of the toxic residues.
    Quite right, John. The burning sugar will not be pleasant and I wouldn't want the colloidal silica hydrate blowing about either though it may get stuck in the goo from burning sugar.

    You post has encouraged me to look into this. Following their recipe for trickling gives this solution:

    - about 6.0% (weight/volume) of oxalic acid dihydrate in 1:1 syrup. 'About' as I'm guessing at the volume increase when you add 35g powder to 500ml 1:1 sugar syrup.

    - they claim this as '4.2%' on the basis of anhydrous equivalent of oxalic added to the solution.

    If I remember correctly the usual recipe (1l water + 1kg sugar + 75g OA dihydrate) most of us use gives:

    - 4.5% (w/v of real dihydrate crystals in 1:1 syrup), aka
    - 3.2% (w/v equivalent of anhydrous OA)

    Some of us use even weaker solutions.

    In other words ApiBioxal made up as they recommend is 100*(6/4.5) = 33% stronger than we (and our bees) are used to. It is the method developed for Italy long ago not the more cautious one developed in Switzerland.

    I guess that I should ask the VMD to comment. I'm supposed to be on their bee committee as the SBA representative but haven't heard from them for a while.

    One comment on 'standing upwind' when you sublimate OA if that is what you want to do (which now seems to be legal with ApiBioxal). Be very careful and don't neglect proper breathing protection. I've had experience of eddies bringing dust containing nasties back to me in a lab setting using a fume hood and outside the same with eddying smoke from bonfires.

    Thank goodness one beekeeping forum poster in particular isn't here or we'd be straight into arguments about 40-year old degrees and the means of describing solid in liquid concentrations .
    Last edited by gavin; 10-11-2015 at 06:39 PM. Reason: OK, I didn't remember correctly

  9. #2869

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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    I guess that I should ask the VMD to comment. I'm supposed to be on their bee committee as the SBA representative but haven't heard from them for a while.

    One comment on 'standing upwind' when you sublimate OA if that is what you want to do (which now seems to be legal with ApiBioxal).
    They also state when using Api-bioxal for sublimation that the vaporizer be washed/cleaned after every treatment, no doubt because of the extra ingredients gumming it up, that is fine for vaporizers like the
    Varrox, but what about the continuous type vaporizers, some that take enough oxalic to treat say 40 colonies none stop, is the equipment going to be ruined or just gummed up solid with toffee i wonder.

  10. #2870
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Good question, I'll ask it for you. Though you may have the answer before officialdom comes up with one.

    Slightly rhubarby toffee? Could be a new sideline .....

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