oxalic acid treatment
Hi
want to give my bees the trickle treatment I have two hives one on a double brood the other single can anyone give me a formulae to treat both. I have the crystals and was told 10g oxalic acid 50g sugar 250ml hot water. Is this okay and will it treat the hives in question?
The correct ratio is 7.5g oxalic with 100g sugar and 100ml water assuming you are using the oxalic dihydrate crystals supplied by the likes of Thorne.
It's late for oxalic treatment as bees probably have some brood by now and most of the mites will be safely tucked away.
I did a blog entry on the oxalic treatment in December here.
The standard treatment is 5ml per seam irrespective if it is a double or single brood colony.
It is not necessary to separate the two boxes in a double brood colony. Just trickle 5ml into each seam between the frames in the top box.
Last edited by Jon; 04-02-2011 at 11:01 PM.
Just like to agree with Jon, although some do use a more dilute solution (and some use stronger!). That's the one I recommend, 7.5g +100g +100mls. It makes about 160ml, enough for about 5 colonies.
The lower-sugar one must be an old recipe as there is good evidence that higher sugar oxalic mixes are tolerated better.
Is it too late? No, it will do some good, but it is past the ideal time to catch all the mites in broodless colonies.
cheers
Gavin
Perhaps the low sugar one was used in the days when oxalic acid was sprayed all over the bees. That was abandoned quite early in the development of oxalic acid delivery. I think it was replaced by sublimation and that, in turn, was replaced by the current safest and effective method of trickling.
Rosie
Rosie wrote:
Perhaps the low sugar one was used in the days when oxalic acid was sprayed all over the bees. That was abandoned quite early in the development of oxalic acid delivery. I think it was replaced by sublimation and that, in turn, was replaced by the current safest and effective method of trickling.
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The definitive research on the use of oxalic acid as a trickle treatment was carried out by Charriere et al in Switzerland and reported in the Schweizerische Bienen Zeitung in October 1999. The report titled “New Recommendations for the Oxalic Acid Trickle Treatment” was reported for the first time in the English language Bee Press in the November 2000 issue, page 266, of the Scottish Beekeeper magazine.
The results of the oxalic acid trickle treatment were discussed at the International Zollikofen Congress in June 2000 and the consensus from this Congress was that an aqueous solution of 35g oxalic dihydrate dissolved a litre of 1 : 1 sugar syrup was the most suitable for the Central Europe.
The original application of oxalic acid as a spray treatment was employed in Russia by Ivanov and Sotnikov in 1988. The original oxalic acid treatment concept was pioneered in Japan byTakeuichi in 1983.
The spray treatment was perfected by Radetzki in Germany 1994. However it was very labour intensive and was quickly superseded by the Trickle Method. The Fumigation Method came later and is the most flexible if not the most popular.
I myself started using the trickle method in winter 1999 as a prophylactic and to prove to myself that the bees could survive the substance, which of course they can. I used the fumigation treatment for the first time in October 2003. That first treatment knocked down the first “fly in” Varroa incursion and using a constant monitoring system of one Varroa floor per five colonies, I have been able to keep on top of the mite from that very first incursion. Again, ask Peter Stromberg.
I moved over to the 60% formic acid treatment in 2006 and still use it today in conjunction with the trickle - as and when necessary!
Eric
I think quite a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then.Originally Posted by Eric McArthur
Here is another reference.
This states that 3.2% is a good strength for your average colony which is what you get with the ratio I quoted in the post above, 7.5, 100g, 100g
Nanetti seems to be the main authority on Oxalic if anyone wants to google the name.
Last edited by Jon; 05-02-2011 at 07:48 PM.
Hi Gavin /Jon
Just the odd correction to the above prose:
Jon wrote:
The standard treatment is 5ml per seam irrespective if it is a double or single brood colony.
It is not necessary to separate the two boxes in a double brood colony. Just trickle 5ml into each seam between the frames in the top box.
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Eric wrote;
I would be extremely interested in your source for the information stated above:
In a strong colony covering 10 frames (I have had many such colonies!) entering the winter on a single brood box, the bee filled frame spaces will require to be “trickled”. A total of 50 mls will be needed for the job.
Consider a strong colony on double brood boxes with bees covering 6/7 frames in both top and bottom boxes (refer to Ian Craig who reduces his frame complement in his double brood system to eight frames in each box!) Using your wisdom Jon the colony goes into winter grossly under treated having only received some 30+ mls of treatment. Think again!
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Gavin wrote:
The lower-sugar one must be an old recipe as there is good evidence that higher sugar oxalic mixes are tolerated better.
Just like to agree with Jon, although some do use a more dilute solution (and some use stronger!). That's the one I recommend, 7.5g +100g +100mls. It makes about 160ml, enough for about 5 colonies.
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Eric wrote:
Arithmetic never was my strongest suit! However, you are two hives short, Gavin. Sorry!
I would refer you back to Apiacta, issue 38, (2003) 81 – 87. Relative to the sugar recipes. Three acid solutions are compared and the Swiss procedure reported in the Scottish Beekeeper magazine in the November 2000, issue of the Scottish Beekeeper compares well with the higher 4.2% figure AND the over wintering bees appear to tolerate this better than the 4.2 solution. This Apiacta paper was actually the report back from the “European Group for Integrated Varroa Control” seminar, which took place in Merlebeke, Belgium, which I attended with Jane Chard. A report of the proceedings was printed in the Scottish Beekeeper in the early 2000s.
Oxalic acid fumigation is a much more flexible treatment method since it can be applied several times within a six week period. Using formic acid, if carried out correctly eliminates much of the need for the oxalic treatment
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Jon wrote:
This states that 3.2% is a good strength for your average colony which is what you get with the ratio I quoted in the post above, 7.5, 100g, 100g.
Nanetti seems to be the main authority on Oxalic if anyone wants to google the name.
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Eric wrote;
Is it really? What about the water content of the oxalic dihydrate crystal? I am happy to have a math lesson without rancour!
Nanetti was the man who discovered that oxalic acid solutions worked systemically.
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Eric
Hi Jon
Just for the record!
Eric
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John wrote:
There are far too many beekeepers who either ignore, or are unaware of current best practice with regard to Oxalic acid strengths and dosages.
My practice (and calculations) follow all the published guidelines for mixing and applying Oxalic acid.
I prefer published research to personal calculations as the dosages have been trialled for years over many colonies Preparation:- Mix 1 litre water with 1k sugar. Add 75g oxalic acid dihydrate (which contains 71.4% oxalic acid). The resulting solution will provide 3.2% oxalic acid.
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Using the above data the acid solution strength is:- 100 x 71.4/2003.6 = 3.564%.
Eric
Last edited by Eric McArthur; 21-02-2011 at 12:51 PM.
No it isn't.
75g oxalic acid dihydrate plus 1 kg sugar plus 1 litre water gives a volume of around 1600mls. I have a more accurate figure somewhere, but I'm short of time right now.
Those ratios give you:
4.5% oxalic acid dihydrate (w/v) in 1:1 syrup.
Which some folk prefer to express as the anhydrous equivalent of:
3.2% oxalic acid (w/v) in 1:1 syrup.
Both figures have been used in the literature, both are valid as long as you state the full details. Not 3.5%. The recipe above is the standard one. Some people deliberately reduce the concentration, some think that they are but they aren't, and people on forums everywhere argue that some other figure applies, but it doesn't.
all the best
Gavin
From Alan Byham, Regional Bee Inspector in a document on the bbka site. ( states 50ml maximum per colony)
http://www.britishbee.org.uk/files/oxalic_acid.pdf
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