Is concern over residues in foundation warranted?

[gavin]

Yeah, quite right, the lack of dead and dying bees should be a (live) give-away.

I wouldn't assume that hydrocarbons means that your hives are absorbing appreciable amounts of diesel and petrol. All it means is that your wax contains ... errr .... wax. The word meaningless applies. This from Wikipedia:

Wax Content Type Percent hydrocarbons 14% monoesters 35% diesters 14% triesters 3% hydroxy monoesters 4% hydroxy polyesters 8% acid esters 1% acid polyesters 2% free acids 12% free alcohols 1% unidentified 6%

[Neils]

But... But... I was going to start a campaign to get cars banned off that back of that letter. Having thoroughly mis-interpreted the data I thought it was obligatory.

So at the moment, from our grand sample of three participants, the only chemical of any relevance that's been detected in the wax samples is Thymol and potentially the rest of the stuff being "detected" form the constituent parts of wax to begin with.

Some context on the quantities might have been useful. hydrocarbons at around 14% of the sample and esters at around 32% would seem to suggest that it's simply the chemical breakdown of the wax itself.

To put a more positive spin on what we've seen so far, Thymol's the only chemical showing up in measurable quanitity (at this stage) though some qualification over what levels they're detecting at rather than "Lethal" would be useful.

[gavin]

But... But... I was going to start a campaign to get cars banned off that back of that letter. Having thoroughly mis-interpreted the data I thought it was obligatory.

I can put you in touch with a man with links to major UK broadsheets and who knows how to work not just <cntrl> c and <cntrl <v> but also <cntrl> b and <cntrl> i if you like!

[gavin]

It isn't clear to me why they are doing some sort of preliminary analysis. What folk really want to know is the trace levels and I'm absolutely sure that they will find a wide range of pollutants in the samples. However having spoken to local commercial bee farmers they have to have lab tests done on their honey for a wide range of things and they didn't have detections of imidacloprid (at a sensitivity of 1 ppb if I remember right). In honey, not comb. The reason is that the bees degrade it within hours.

I'd also guess that there will be fewer detections of agricultural chemicals compared with the US commercial beekeeper samples analysed by Maryann Frazier. Partly because the US commercial beekeepers keep their bees on more agricultural land than we do, and partly because I don't believe that UK amateurs in general have the same history of over-medicating their bees with beekeeping chemicals as some of the key players in the States seem to have done.

[Neils]

I think if the preliminary results were accompanied with some better context it might be more useful than at present. I'm still expecting Fluvalinate etc to make an appearence. I suspect you're right when it comes to general prohylactic medication that we won't see similar results to the US studies which was why I was particularly interested in taking part in this one, especially given the title of this very thread.

I think the general reaction to the techniques of Hackenburg et al when the documentaries first came out possibly speaks volumes. At least across the hobbyist forums the reactions were pretty uniform.

[Neils]

Just perusing Thorne's site and notice they're now doing organic foundation but only in National size.

[chris]

Might be interesting to know where they source it.

[prakel]

Where do they source it? I don't know.

Off topic again...

I do know that the small cell foundation which they used to sell was made to order for them by an American company -can't remember which one with enough certainty to mention the name. It was the tightening of restrictions on wax import which stopped them bringing in small cell from the US, at least, that's the way they explained it to me.

[mbc]

Might be interesting to know where they source it.

I have a friend who imports tonnes of organic beeswax from Zambia, google tropical forest honey for more info, an inspiring operation.

[Poly Hive]

Given the minuscule risk of contaminants in wax compared to the serious risk of having combs as per the pics on this thread I have made my mind up.

PH