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Thread: Is concern over residues in foundation warranted?

  1. #1
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    Default Is concern over residues in foundation warranted?

    Just having spotted Ron Hoskins (of Swindon Bee fame) in an article in this month's BBKA news firmly link chemical residues in wax with Drone sterility/queen supersedure I thought it a pertinent question.

    Last year I stopped using foundation completely in my supers and I'm still mulling over the practically on 14x12 frames of phasing out foundation in the brood boxes. Chemical residues do play a large part in considering this although just letting the bees draw the combs the want is also a factor.

    I don't personally use pyrethoid or similar chemical/pesticide treatments, thymol aside if people want to get picky, as part of my varroa IPM and so I don't really want to introduce it back into my hives through foundation.

    Am I worrying over nothing? once drawn to comb is the quantity of wax in foundation likely to mean that concentrations are now going to be so low as to make no difference and/or am I just buying into the pesticide "scare" through the back door? I don't seem to be able to find anything conclusive linking anything in wax with wider bee health problems.

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    Senior Member EmsE's Avatar
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    Hi Nellie, does your LA have the facility to make foundation? At least then you know the wax is from a trusted source.

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    Senior Member chris's Avatar
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    Nellie, the 2007 study by Chauzat & Faucon on pesticides in wax has this phrase at the end

    "Therefore, the authors strongly encourage beekeepers
    to make foundation wax from their own virgin wax."

    I'm not going to argue with that.

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris View Post
    from their own virgin wax..
    That's the tricky bit.
    Like Nellie, I am suspicious of chemical build up in the Wax.
    We have a guy in our bka who presses wax for all the rest of us at a reasonable price.
    Members give him lumps of wax and you get back a proportional number of sheets in various sizes, drone or worker whatever you ask for.
    The problem is that most of the chemical contamination is still going to be in there.
    I don't use Apistan any more but nearly everyone else in my BKA does so if I use this wax I get recycled Apistan.

    I believe a lot of wax is imported from other sources such as China so if you buy wax from a commercial supplier the problem could even be worse.
    Does anyone happen to know where the various suppliers such as Thorne source their product.
    Last edited by Jon; 02-02-2011 at 07:11 PM.

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    Senior Member EmsE's Avatar
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    Is there also a risk of the wax from an unknown source to carry AFB or is it speculation? Our LA is encouraging us to make our own foundation from our own wax.

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    Jon, can't you work it so the foundation you get back is from your own wax?.
    My beekeeping supplier also provides wax from organic sources. It costs about 50 % more. I bought it once, to start off,and now use my bees' own, but in starter strips, letting them build their own comb within frames.

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    I'm in two minds (gives me someone to talk to if nothing else). I'm still seriously considering ditching foundation completely in the brood boxes, but I'm on 14x12s which can be wobbly in terms of not having the combs fall out when not handled correctly at the best of times and in some respects I think I'd prefer to go that route over pressing my own foundation simply because I lack the space for yet more beekeeping gear in the house as it is.

    As I mentioned above I stopped using foundation in the supers last year with no problems whatosever putting them through a (manual) extractor and I can't see me changing that this year. But in terms of brood frames I do wonder whether I've backed myself into a corner a little with 14x12s. I was considering putting a brace about halfway down the frame with a starter strip there and at the top, but I'm also a little unsure at the moment what the ramifications, if any are, in terms of how that might affect the brood area.

    Perhaps I should just experiment and be prepared to go back to foundation in the short term while I figure out a better solution.

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris View Post
    starter strips, letting them build their own comb within frames.
    I am seriously considering phasing out at least some of the frames with foundation to let them draw their own wax.
    has anyone tried alternating drawn frames with frames with a starter strip. If nothing else that should avoid cross combing and the need to move en masse to biobees.com to complain about it.

    A couple of people posted about using fishing line to reinforce the frames. Doris does this and Rosie (Steve) used to do this as well.
    I think I will try this in some colonies this year. Even using alternate frames it would reduce the chemical load by 50%

    Doris posted these pics earlier in the year.
    Last edited by Jon; 02-02-2011 at 10:00 PM.

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    Worked fine with me in the supers. Not sure I'd want to try it with full super of empty frames. in the supers, I started with 13 frames alternated between drawn and starter strip and both shuffled frames around and widened the spacing as the combs were drawn.

    One of our old salts here drills a hold about halfway down the frame on a 14x12 and runs wire through it to add an extra bit of stability using the old car battery trick to embed the wire with foundation. Have to admit, on a standard national frame I wouldn't be that bothered about trying to brace it to be honest, but I might live to regret putting that in "print".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    has anyone tried alternating drawn frames with frames with a starter strip. If nothing else that should avoid cross combing [/URL].
    I do this when changing a colony from foundation to none, the first year. Once, I forgot to put in a frame (der) and on next inspection found the bees had built a double comb, attaching a *floater* to another framed comb by a patch of wax in the centre. Amazingly this held out fine, and was parallel to the other combs.I don't use fishing line, I use wire, but I wire vertically. No "strength" problems even in summer .The hives are in full sun, but I leave roof insulation in all year round. In my ignorance, I don't know what 14x 12 is- my hives are Dadants and the insides of brood frames measure 27deep x 42wide cm. (10.8 x 16.8 ins.).
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