Hi Jon
As Grizzly recently put it so well - if a system works for the beekeeper concerned - that is the secret!
Eric
Hi Jon
As Grizzly recently put it so well - if a system works for the beekeeper concerned - that is the secret!
Eric
nope I don't agree. If a system doesn't kill of the bees, the beekeeper probably did not cause too much damage.Originally Posted by Eric McArthur
Somehow bees managed for about 100 million years or so without constant help in the winter. Feral bees still do.
I still contend this whole prophylactic feeding carries inherent drawbacks for the bees (stimulates brood production at inappropriate times, shortens bee longevity,,,).
Unless they really are about to run out of food let them get on with their thing!
I chatted to a specialist today about another issue and we got to talking about different types of sugar. The sugar we feed is basically Saccharose, honey is predominantly Glucose and Fructose with is much easier for the bees to digest (so I am told). Sugar fed in autumn is inverted (split) by the bees into Glucose and Fructose - I am interested of what the forum makes of this.
Eric buy Das grosse Honigbuch you'll enoy it!!
Last edited by Calum; 05-02-2011 at 10:04 PM.
Calum wrote:
Eric wrote:
Hi Jon
As Grizzly recently put it so well - if a system works for the beekeeper concerned - that is the secret!
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Calum wrote:
Eric
Nope I don't agree. If a system doesn't kill of the bees, the beekeeper probably did not cause too much damage.
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Where did that come from?
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Calum wrote:
I still contend this whole prophylactic feeding carries inherent drawbacks for the bees (stimulates brood production at inappropriate times, shortens bee longevity,,,).
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Prophylactic feeding? Can you expand on that?
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Calum wrote:
The sugar we feed is basically Saccharose
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A number of dictionaries state:
sucrose | saccharose [synonym] | C12H22O11 [chemical formula]
They are the same!
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Calum wrote:
Eric buy Das grosse Honigbuch you'll enoy it!!
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Schon gelesen! Wie auch Bretschko, Armburster und Nowottnick unter andern.
Eric
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Hi,
my comment about the beekeeper not causing too much damage comes from all this talk about feeding in the winter and spring when the bees have plenty of stores. You said yourself :"My philosophy relative to spring feeding is not so much “stimulation” as “feel good factor”. Bees are just like us but smaller!"
It might make them feel good but that does not make it appropriate or natural. Deep fried mars bars are popular in scotland as are chubby chlidren.
Feeding in spring risks spring being contaminated with the sugar fed (the bees store it, and will often move stores around to increase the size of the brood nest).
The bees will also shorten their lives working the sucrose into glucose and fructose according to a food specialist I was chatting to.
Feeding bees to stimulate them probably makes the beekeeper feel he is doing something good more than anything else.
Last edited by Calum; 07-02-2011 at 10:15 AM.
Calum wrote:
The bees will also shorten their lives working the sucrose into glucose and fructose according to a food specialist I was chatting to.
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Eric wrote:
What do you think bees do with the kilograms of nectar they collect! Calum I don't wish to be forward - but my adivice is change your advisers!
Eric
Eric young bees doing this at a time when the colony is in growth and there are bees in surplus is fine.
This extra workload on old, over wintered bees shortens their lives and thus weakens the colony as a whole increasing the likelyhood of collapse.
My advisors are fine, the nutritionalist is a specialist advisor to the bavarian forestry and farming department, his job is researching & teaching bee health.
I am really suprised that you promote spring feeding, as an avid reader of German bee magazines; both bee magazines regularly advise against unneeded feeding in the spring.
Last edited by Calum; 07-02-2011 at 11:58 PM.
Hi Calum
Calum wrote
As an avid reader of German bee magazines; both bee magazines regularly advise against unneeded feeding in the spring.
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Hi Calum
I actually read 4 German language magazines each month – including the Swiss mag.. The “key” word in your prose above is “unneeded”! I never do things by rote. Every season is different. In some seasons where bees are threatened by isolation starvation feeding a heavy syrup is essential – unless spare store combs can be donated - and I have also done this when necessary. As a single handed commercial beekeeper managing 60 – 80 colonies, I always worked a single brood box system – which I complemented successfully with sugar bags on the colonies in winter for some 37 years. As I said every season is different - 200910 was! However the sugar bags are back – hopefully for another 37 years!
My philosophy regarding “stimulation/feel good factor” is based on the knowledge that bees require a steady water supply for brood rearing especially in the early spring when the weather can confine the bees for days – weeks sometimes. What I give the colonies is 1 : 2, sugar : water syrup – which is a palatable “in hive water” supply. The bees will not store this – they will use the water for brood rearing and consume the syrup for energy as if it were incoming nectar.
Hi Eric
http://www.lwg.bayern.de/bienen/aktu...linkurl_21.pdf (sorry everyone else it is in german)- the summation of observation of thousands of colonies and combined efforts of aparist institutes in germany switzerland and austria.
That said whatever works for you.
Hi Calum
Excellent stuff! Just a quickie translation!
March 2009
Bees also require to be fed, especially now!
Local Food shortage:
The still present winter denies the beekeeper the opportunity to make an objective colony assessment. One or other beekeeper, who has visited his apiary may sometimes find light hives. Also reports about colonies dying of starvations are increasing. Reason enough to use the first warm flight day for a food inspection.
What can I do in a case of food shortage?
Certainly opinions will be heard which advocate “feed”! However this is not always quite so simple. Cold days and nights can result in bees being driven out of the hives by unsuitable feed causing them to become chilled and unable to fly.
Which food is suitable?
Store Comb - Well Suited, if soiled melt down.
Granulated Honey, - Ok when weather good, Bees need water to dissolve the crystal and are forced to forage in cold weather.
Bought Syrup – Feeding possible due to low water content, Feeding halts when weather cold.
Sugar syrup (DIY) – Feeding possible if flying weather occurs, The water content must be reduced by the bees. This results in flight activity.
Patty with honey – Favourable during flying weather and cooler weather. The sugar crystals are smaller than those of granulated honey. Due to inversion the patty remains moist.
Things to Do
• The weather in many regions in March can be suitable for bee flight, so that a feed check can be carried out.
• Dry, clean hives should be taken to the apiaries, so that a colony may be transferred from a damp hive or united . Dry, clean hives inhibit fungal growth.
• At this time dummies or floor inserts can be installed. The early brood can be more easily nursed, when it is screened from the cold.
Exactly, don't feed unless you have to, then be careful of what you do feed.
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