There is no beekeeping best practice but many poor quality beekeepers

[Calum]

Hallo
so the BBKA Pesticide Decision is really beyond its sell by date, so it is time we had something new to argue about.

It is my opinion that there are no best practices in beekeeping just several more or less effective methods of trying to achieve the beekeepers objectives that are more or less successful depending on what the bees were actually planning, the weather, nectar flow, time of the year, luck, and implementation of the manipulation by the beekeeper.

I would further argue that by far the biggest threat to kept bees is their beekeeper.

Case in hand: I was chatting to a beekeeper of 40 years about why he is giving up. His response all his bees keep dying. I asked him how his varroa treatment went. His response
“I treated them as usual 3 doses of 60% formic acid”.

It as been recommended that 5-7 doses be applied for at least 4 years now in all magazines, training / lecture sessions and beekeeping meetings (for ordering the right amount of medications in spring and in July/August meetings again).

Discuss

[gavin]

I think that you've come to the right place to explore disorganised, ad hoc, ill-informed treatment and management schedules. Almost all of us are like that but some are worse than others. At our recent association meeting I heard an experienced beekeeper recommend to inexperienced ones usng powdered sugar to control the mites.

[Calum]

Yes advice (especially poor advice) from experienced beekeepers poses a problem for newbies - as there are always three different recommendations (sometimes from the same beekeeper) how should they know which is the right one?
I am lucky to have a great mentor that I listen to most of the time (well even some of his ideas dont sit well with me- eg varroa treatment) and two bibles (Einfach Imkern & Der Wochenende Imker). When it comes down to varroa treatment I only listen to the bee institutes here which also have differing opinions but the treatments that are legal in Bavaria are limited so that makes the choice much easier.

[Gscot]

At the moment I consider myself a poor quality beekeeper with poor practices but have managed to keep my 2 colonies alive.
I have heard or good quality beekeepers with good practices with dead colonies.
I think with all the do's and dont's if,s and but's all the different opinions I'm going to have to learn with my own experiance, pick out a few tips that I think suit .
They say get yourself a mentor how do you know he's giving you the correct information...
I recon its about 103 recommendations for a single problem.from the forums.
But the SBA forum always gives you great advice...(got to say that.)

Caught a swarm last year the queen did not lay any eggs dont know the reason why,but did'nt manage to re-queen and its still thriving .That was last Aug.put a couple of eggs and brood frames in in late Sep trying to re-queen.... was told bees only live for about 6 weeks in the summer.... wondering why the bees are not all dead

[Calum]

Gscot I agree with your points - good beekeepers over here loose colonies too.
I have a theory on this and beginners luck.
My theory is that beekeepers starting out have nucs or caught swarms and these will generally have a lower varroa infestation rate, and with a young queen are generally more vital that an established colony.
Beekeepers that have had bees for longer have the kit they need (or in use) and tend to try to keep their stocks at a constant level.
Beekeepers starting out split their colonies more often (building up saftey stocks or expanding) thus lowering the infestation rates in each colony.
I make 2-3 four frame nucs per established colony. An established beekeeper that only replaces his losses will remove much fewer brood frames thus aleviating less of the varroa pressure on his colonies. - just my theory!

Recommendations from forums are a tricky business as remote diagnosis is very difficult (often a little piece of info can be missing that can put the problem in a whole new light) - as there are often many permutations of what the problem can be and adding differing possible solutions you will get many recommendations some conflicting that many not all be wrong (although based on varying understandings of the symptoms listen and assumed) as respondents think they are trying to solve different root causes. A mentor that can lift the lid with you is priceless in comparison.

[gavin]

There's a lot in that. Certainly most of the beginners I've been helping have healthier bees than me!

Forums do sometimes collect characters who like to hold forth on stuff that they don't know enough about, and some mentors - the ones who push themselves forwards - can be the same. I suppose that one way to ensure that your beekeeping is good is to take many of your ideas from the better books. Wedmore and Hooper were my beekeeping bibles.

G.

[Jon]

.. wondering why the bees are not all dead

Bees which don't rear brood live longer.

[GRIZZLY]

Bees which don't rear brood live longer.

And then die out.
I find the problem with a lot of beekeepers is that they become set in their ways - are not prepared to listen to "younger" "less experienced" beekeepers,poo-poo modern research,jump on bandwagons such as pest control and chemical treatments of bee diseases and parasites etc..etc.I could go on,the list is endless.What I will say is find a system of beekeeping that works for you and works for your bees and above all KEEP AN OPEN MIND.

[Trog]

I think, Grizzly that Jon was saying that the bees in question, who are in their winter cluster, will live longer than summer bees because they're not raising brood or foraging. Spring will reveal whether the queen's able to lay properly. I have a nuc that may or may not be OK in the same way. Time will tell.

[Gscot]

Great, these answers for the queenless colony have been logged in my "tips to believe" log.
Also noticed that hive had more honey stored than the queen right colonies
Wondering what's the chance of the queenless colony surviving till May and re-queening