Jasmine Revolution springs to mind if you want an example applicable to the last 24 hours.Originally Posted by Jon
Jasmine Revolution springs to mind if you want an example applicable to the last 24 hours.
There certainly seems to be a current campaign by the cut and paste merchants. I've had 2 emails in the last 24 hours by a Mr White urging me to pass on his attachments and links to everyone I know. Personally, I'd love to live in a world where there were no pests requiring zapping or weeds requiring weeding and where there was sufficient food for everyone, but we're a long, long way from Eden and have to do the best we can with the resources available.
I wonder whether the 'ban the evil chemical giants' brigade are happy to take antibiotics, have themselves and their children immunised (whether the routine UK stuff or the extras required for travelling to certain countries), and allow themselves and their loved ones to be treated for assorted nasties like cancer should the need arise. Are their houses made of untreated, unpainted, sustainable timber with not a bit of plastic to be seen?
Just had a thought. Has anyone done any research on the effect on bees of the pollution from cars and lorries? Perhaps the American bees transported miles and miles on lorries are being exposed to more chemical fumes as they travel along the roads than they can cope with?
Last edited by Trog; 20-01-2011 at 06:42 PM. Reason: punctuation
One of the early suspects was migratory beekeeping but I don't believe any studies have linked this to CCD.
I don't know of any, but the fact that some of the most prolific colonies in France are in the big cities would suggest that food is more important than air conditions.
The only case I know of where traffic proved not too good for the bees, was when a colony that should have been pollinating an orchard crossed a motorway to the oil seed rape the other side. Or I should say tried to cross.
oooops
Hi Guys welcome back;
Nellie has been minding the store and doing a splendid job, while you Gavin were in your blacked out room recovering from the trauma of dashing around 3 or was it 5 fora blowing your cover of impartiality in the neonicotinoids issue in your need to jump on the Westminster, Early Days Motion, which was subsequently correctly reinstated. I notice also from the National Press, that Dr Carreck has come out to defend the neonics as well! Despite many protestations about his neutrality credentials - you are in great company!
You guys are all over the place when the pesticides issue hits your particular fan. My issue is with the neuro-toxins. The issue with the “traditional” poisons is the need for, as Trog so succinctly puts it, “proper application” and I would stress, tighter control on their use. The pesticide multis have an extremely well organised and highly professional, high salaried sales team, pushing constantly to expand sales and profits. Over the recent months, I have been astonished that despite this situation, I am constantly being confronted by a team of professed amateurs, (beekeepers to boot!) who are also acting like salesmen for these highly toxic substances.
Last spring in Germany another serious neonic poisoning incident occurred, which did not quite make the news outside Germany! No pasting here! Ask if you dare and I will feed you the information. In India as we speak thousands of honey bee colonies are dying of pesticide poisoning – the beekeepers there are in despair – again ask nicely and I will educate you.
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Gavin wrote:
Other neonicotinoids vary, for example clothianidin has killed large numbers of colonies when allowed to drift as a dust from mistakes in the preparation of dressed seed.
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Hi All
The bees were killed en –masse (11 500) but it was ONLY a mistake! Does that make the colonies any less dead?
The “mistake” was criminal negligence - research in Italy into pneumatic seed drills in 2003 proved that these planters which were also used in the German masacre were flawed – but the work was suppressed. I have the report – if anyone is interested – not likely!
Try Bulletin of Insectology 56 (1): 69 - 72. 2003 ISSN 1721-8861
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Chris wrote!
Concerning the field studies that you know of, the longest has been carried out over how many years?
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Try this:
COALITION AGAINST BAYER
http://www.cbgnetwork.de/2821.html
Banned in France
In France imidacloprid has been banned as a seed dressing for sunflowers since 1999, after 500,000 colonies of French honeybees died after its widespread introduction. Five years later it was also banned as a treatment for maize in France. Clothianidin was never approved in France.
Best regards
Eric
Post by Martin ('Brosville') on another forum:
Default Plethora of neonicotinoid dangers articles
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...s-2190321.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ear...ee-demise.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...=feeds-newsxml
http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/articles....cles&ID=215312
I repeat: the legacy of McArthur, Chandler and White will be a shameful one. The great campaigners achieving a great victory which consists of removing relatively (bee and human) safe pesticides from food production systems. Blind stupidity pushing at open doors. Incredible.
all I did was ask a couple of questions which you replied to in the form of name calling.
I do briefly skim your posts on the off chance you accidentally post something interesting, but I'm pretty much done taking you seriously. I do urge you to continue though simply because I firmly believe that most people are alienated by your evangelical, but substance less approach.
It could be that you're just plain ignorant about the cause you claim to champion which is why you respond to any questions on it the way you do but as forum trolling goes, I've seen much better and more subtle.
Eric, the *article* you divert me to has nothing , absolutely zero, nil, rien nowt , to do with my question.
What is more it "arranges" the findings of the 2003 CST report to suit a preconceived idea.
I have the report in question, as I have all the reports of the CST concerning the Gaucho and Regent AMM non renewal. As a matter of fact it consists of 106, not 108 pages, but perhaps I'm being pedantic. After all, being unable to count is to be expected in those unable to read.
The report "creates" 5 possible scenarios for the effect of imidaclopride on bees in different stages of their lives.
Scenario 1: Consumption of larval *soup* by the larva. Ratio PEC/PNEC undetermined because of absence of data concerning toxicity.
Scenario 2: Consumption of pollen by the nurse bees. Comment: absence of data concerning the stability of imidaclopride during pollen storage in the hive, and residue doses in bee bread.
Scenario 3: Consumption of pollen by foragers. Comment : Scenario relying on an estimation of the proportion of pollen ingested whilst making the balls of pollen.
Scenario 4 :Consumption of nectar by foragers. Comment : Absence of data concerning the doses of residues in honey stocked in the hive. Scenario relying on a single analyses of residues in the nectar.
Scenario 5 :Consumption of honey by house bees. Comment :Absence of data concerning imidaclopride doses in the honey and the stability of imidaclopride in the honey during its storage in the hive. Scenario relying on a single analyses of residues in the nectar.
Below, I quote from your reccommended article
*The results of the examination on the risks of the seeds-treatment Gaucho (imidacloprid) are alarming. The treatment of seeds by Gaucho is a significant risk to bees in several stages of life.*
Is this statement justified by the report?
Last edited by chris; 21-01-2011 at 02:40 PM. Reason: miscounted my fingers
Colony Posionings in Germany (Clothianidin
from seed coatings)
Speigel Report I could post more from Stern and some Austrian and Swiss publications but it is all in German.
clothianidin coated maise seeds are no allowed to be used in Germany at this time -since 2008 (they may try to improve the coating technology in the future). I suppose they have to offload their stocks somewhere.
The courts are still deciding about Imidacloprid.
I find it dismaying that beekeepers who all want the same thing (a safe environment for their bees) are conversing in such a tone with each other. The issue is odviously dear to peoples hearts as it should be.
My opinion is that these are not chemicals you would feed your children (I beleive it says so on the tin) so they are probably not healthy for the bees. How they get into hives is debateable (pollen or water) but they are being found in them.
Their purpose it to kill insects that consume them.
There is a need for insect control in farming to enable food & feed production to meet worldwide demand without it being nessicary to convert more unfallowed ground into farmland thus depriving nature of more space on this planet.
So we will have to try to live and let live and find common ground. The only other feasible solutions being another world war or pestilance wiping out large numbers of us which I hope noone will promote.
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