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Thread: BBKA Pesticde Decision

  1. #11

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    Hi Jon/Gavin

    Sorry to bring bad tidings. The motion is back ON! Se under!

    ERic

    MPACT OF NEONICOTINOID PESTICIDES ON BEES AND OTHER INVERTEBRATES 13.01.2011

    SPONSORED BY Martin Caton MP
    9 signatures

    Bottomley, Peter
    Corbyn, Jeremy
    Durkan, Mark

    Hancock, Mike
    Jackson, Glenda
    McDonnell, John

    Meale, Alan
    Williams, Stephen

    That this House is gravely concerned by the contents of a recently leaked memo from the the US EnvironmentProtection Agency, whose scientists warn that bees and other non-target invertebrates are at risk from a new neonicotinoid pesticide, and that tests in the US approval process are insufficient to detect the environmental damage caused; [ That this House] acknowledges that these findings reflect the conclusions of a 2009 `Buglife' report that identified similar inadequacies in the European approval regime with regard to neonicotinoids; notes reports that bee populations have soared in four European countries that have banned these chemicals; and [ That this House] therefore calls on the Government to act urgently to suspend all existing approvals for products containing neonicotinoids and fipronil pending more exhaustive tests and the development of international methodologies for properly assessing the long-term effects of systemic pesticides on invertebrate populations.
    Last edited by Eric McArthur; 18-01-2011 at 12:11 PM. Reason: ommision

  2. #12
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    I'm still not convinced that a ban of Neonicotinoids is necessarily a great idea, but other wise I'm all for it.

    It's an early day motion so that might be as far as it goes, or it might snowball from there, who knows?

  3. #13

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    Hi Nellie
    If you believe in the Precautionary Principle and wish to promote this why not add your voice to the many thousands voting in favour of common sense! Write to your MP:

    Eric

    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Here is a sample letter you can send to your MP:

    Dear (MP),

    I am writing to ask you to support Early Day Motion 1267 -
    IMPACT OF NEONICOTINOID PESTICIDES ON BEES AND OTHER INVERTEBRATES.

    This is an extremely important measure to protect all our native
    insects from these pernicious and persistent toxins, which are
    increasingly recognized by the beekeeping and independent scientific
    communities as being a major causative factor in the massive decrease
    over recent years of the bee population.

    Yours sincerely,
    etc

  4. #14
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    It's difficult to support it as is when I don't understand the ramifications of what happens if it went through as written.

    What's going to take the place of neonicontinoids? Given the supposed longevity of neonicotinoids in the environment how do they react with whatever will replace them? What do we know about the effects of what replaces them in comparison to the current known effect of neonicotinoids on non target insects?

    So yes I'll admit there is also an element of "better the devil you know" going on here too.

  5. #15

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    Hi Nellie

    Depends on who your particular devil might be! I trust the info pasted under will be useful!

    Best regards

    Eric

    ...................................

    This is an extract from the EU Regulations governing the use of all pesticides


    “The Community shall have as its task, […] a high level of protection and improvement of the
    quality of the environment, […]”.


    A plant protection product, consequent on application consistent with good plant protection
    practice and having regard to realistic conditions of use, shall meet the following
    requirements:
    […]
    (b) it shall have no immediate or delayed harmful effect […] on groundwater;
    […]
    (e) it shall have no unacceptable effects on the environment, having particular regard to
    the following considerations where the scientific methods accepted by the Authority to assess
    such effects are available:
    (i) its fate and distribution in the environment, particularly contamination of
    surface waters, including estuarine and coastal waters, groundwater, air and soil
    taking into account locations distant from its use following long-range environmental
    transportation;
    (ii) its impact on non-target species, including on the ongoing behaviour of those
    species;
    (iii) its impact on biodiversity and the ecosystem;

    Regulation (EC) No 1107/2009 defines ‘environment’ in article 3(13):
    “waters (including ground, surface, transitional, coastal and marine), sediment, soil, air,
    land, wild species of fauna and flora, and any interrelationship between them, and any
    relationship with other living organisms.”
    and ‘biodiversity’ in article 3(29):
    “variability among living organisms from all sources, including terrestrial, marine and other
    aquatic ecosystems and the ecological complexes of which they are part; this variability may
    include diversity within species, between species and of ecosystems;”

    .................................................. ..............

    For detailed information on the history of pesticides and their application and effectiveness before and after the advent of neonicotinoids contact;
    Henk Tennekes. Toxicology Consultant for Experimental Toxicology Services (ETS) Netherlands BV. He can be contacted at : www.toxicology.nl.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    "In 2009, Italy's first neo-nicotinoid-free maize sowing resulted in no cases of widespread bee mortality in apiaries around the crops. This had not happened since 1999. Francesco Panella, President of the Italian Association of Beekeepers, says:
    "On behalf of bee-farmers working in a countryside dominated by maize crops, I wrote to the Minister of Agriculture to confirm the great news, for once: thanks to the suspension of the bee-killing seed coating, the hives in the Po Valley are flourishing again."
    However, this is not true in Southern Italy, where bee mortality was high in citrus groves, which were sprayed with neo-nicotinoids that are also used in grape-.
    vineyards and on other crops."

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric McArthur View Post
    Hi Nellie

    Depends on who your particular devil might be! I trust the info pasted under will be useful!

    Best regards

    Eric
    Not especially to be perfectly honest, it'll take me several months to be able to arrive at anything approaching an informed opinion. Believe me it's something that I am starting to look into in more depth but aside from the actual time and effort required, there's an awful lot of opinion masquerading as fact to wade through as well.

  7. #17

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    Hi Nellie
    I suppose you are quite correct! One needs to be very careful about believing such dodgy info sources as Panella. He is after all only the President of the Italian National Beekeepers Association

    "In 2009, Italy's first neo-nicotinoid-free maize sowing resulted in no cases of widespread bee mortality in apiaries around the crops. This had not happened since 1999. says, Francesco Panella, President of the Italian Association of Beekeepers.

    I do hope you do not become too infirm to manage your bees before you achieve enlightenment!

    Best regards

    Eric

  8. #18
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    Ah well that's fine then, I know nothing about the Italian beekeeping association or Snr Panella for that matter.

    I know lots of people who are similarly experienced Beekeepers who take their to treated OSR in this country who aren't reporting widespread problems as a result, perhaps I should take them at face value and decide that it's just a lot of hot air over nothing?

    Maybe I should ask Tim Lovett for his opinion too?

    Good to see that any answer you don't like continues with just insulting the person who gave it though, it makes me so much more likely not to just lump you in with the other crazies.

    See when it comes to writing to MPs to suggest that things get banned I like to think I'd come at it from a position of some knowledge and understanding about just what it is I'm asking for, why I'm asking for it and what the ramifications are if it were to happen. Unintended consequences and all that.

    Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go rock backwards and forwards in my chair and dribble into my coffee.

  9. #19

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    Hi Nellie
    Let me say firstly that I am extremely sorry if my remarks regarding concern for your well being were considered to be offensive. It must be a culture thing – Glaswegians are an odd bunch, especially Glaswegian beekeepers.
    .................................................. .........................................
    You wrote;
    Good to see that any answer you don't like continues with just insulting the person who gave it though, it makes me so much more likely not to
    just lump you in with the other crazies.
    .................................................. ............................................
    I’ve dealt with your main clause (above). Your subordinate clause is - “Yet Another Puzzle ”– are you implying that the other crazies have no compassion?
    It is indeed an honour to be deemed “another crazy”, as a badge for my deep concern about the well being of the honey bee – see there is the phrase “well being” again! The fact that, as we speak, a petition to ban the use of neonicotinoids, until they are deemed environmentally safe (Precautionary Principle) is fast reaching the
    1 000 000 votes mark, makes me feel a worthwhile part of a substantial group of other crazies.
    I, of course cannot know what motivates your interest in beekeeping, but considering the positive (no losses !) Italian situation mooted by Panella and the massive negative (11 500 honey bee colony losses) in the Lower Rhine region of Germany to clothianidin in 2008, your indifference to the well being of the honey bee seems quite low on a scale of 1 – 10!
    Your stated choice of Tim Lovett as a source of information speaks volumes, considering that the BBKA Executive have just conceded that they are out of step with the crazies in the BBKA, who after many years of frustration succeeded in separating the BBKA from direct sponsorship of pesticides on January 15th 2011.

    Best Regards

    Eric

  10. #20
    Senior Member chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nellie View Post
    it'll take me several months to be able to arrive at anything approaching an informed opinion.
    I've been reading up on it for a couple of years now, and the only thing that I seem to have learned is the phrase of Richard Powers:
    "When you think you understand the nature of what you’re looking at, it means that you haven’t looked carefully enough".

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